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Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #2773115
05/10/20 10:21 AM
05/10/20 10:21 AM
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There are two piece adapters out there that are 1in thick that are a little cleaner. But, the cost is a little on the high side. I use a similar plate to go the opposite way to run a 4150 on my M1 4500 intake. I built mine rather than buy. I used some scrap 1/2 in aluminum plate and it works great.

The pic is what is on Ebay and not my handy work. But mine is real close copy. wink

4500 Plate.jpg
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: jb500] #2773121
05/10/20 10:39 AM
05/10/20 10:39 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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That’s a clever idea.

You could open up the top of a 4150 intake as much as was easy/practical, then take that adapter and open it up enough to match.

From a power standpoint, the HVH 4500/4150 super sucker/adapter works well on a Victor intake...... but makes for a pretty tall combo.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: jb500] #2773124
05/10/20 10:49 AM
05/10/20 10:49 AM
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S.E. Michigan
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That's pretty sneaky. Thank you for posting that, I might be able to use it.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2773131
05/10/20 11:07 AM
05/10/20 11:07 AM
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Temperance, MI
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
That’s a clever idea.

You could open up the top of a 4150 intake as much as was easy/practical, then take that adapter and open it up enough to match.

From a power standpoint, the HVH 4500/4150 super sucker/adapter works well on a Victor intake...... but makes for a pretty tall combo.


I actually like that idea, might be able to pull that off with the trick flow. I don’t mind doing some grinding to open it up.


68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: jb500] #2773158
05/10/20 12:11 PM
05/10/20 12:11 PM
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And this is how mine sits with the adapter and a 1in 4 hole spacer. I just recently found the PDH piece on Ebay and didn't know they existed. I was determined to run the M1 and worked out the idea with my Dad (the true machinist) and he did the mill work. It flat works as I am just a shade under 585hp @6000 with a stock stroke 440 with this combo. My Victor was <1% better than the M1 on the pump, so it stayed. Plus, I like the carb sitting level vs the Victor's angle.

I have the top plate attachment holes 90* to the 4500 mounting holes with round counter sunk head bolts for both plates. I use a 4150 gasket between the two plates along with some RTV to make sure all the voids are filled.

If I had a mill at my disposal I would whip out a few more top plates to try as the combos could be limitless.

IMG_2586.JPG
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2773183
05/10/20 01:14 PM
05/10/20 01:14 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Maybe 17-18 years ago I had a pump gas 493 on the dyno with a roller cam and std port SR heads (mild porting by MM.....about 300cfm).

I tested a std M1 with a spacer and my good ported 850 annular, and a 1050/4500 on a 2” adapter, and then swapped the intake for a M1/4500 with no spacers.

I’d have to see if I could dig out the sheets, but my recollection is there wasn’t much difference in power between the 3 tests...... maybe like 7-10hp.

That motor was in the 660-670hp range.


It’s always better to not go off memory when possible....... I found the sheets.

M1 4150 w-1” open spacer & ported annular 850 = 632tq@4700, 660hp@6400

M1 4150 w-2” 4500/4150 adapter with new HP1050/8896 = 637tq@4800, 673hp@6300

M1 4500, no spacer with new HP1050/8896 = 635tq@4800, 669hp@6300.

So, on that particular combo, the 4150 intake with the added plenum volume of the 2” adapter was the winner by a very slim margin.
The 4500 intake was bought for hood clearance issues(customer wanted to run a 4500 carb, but it wouldn’t fit with the 4150 intake and 2” adapter”.
All 3 combos used right at 900cfm at the top of the pull(6700).


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2773195
05/10/20 01:42 PM
05/10/20 01:42 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Since those three tests yielded very similar results...... there’s not much fun in that........
So, here’s three different intakes......

The motor is a 446 with dome pistons, stage 6 heads(owner ported) and a 280@.050 bracket race SFT cam.

First test is a TM7 with the spacer plates for the RB block and stage 6 heads, the Moroso 2” adapter and a 1090 King Demon(4500) carb.

The second test is my SD/4500 on the spacer plates, no additional carb spacer, same 1090 carb.

Third test is the MP full width Stage 6 4150 single plane intake(no spacers), with the 2” carb adapter, same 1090 carb.
(Where did the TQ go??)

Last test, pulled the 1090 and adapter off and installed customers Demon 850, no additional carb spacers.

All the full width Stage 6 intakes have MW sized runners. There are 4 versions.... 4150 and 4500 for both std and MW size.
Even the one for std port heads and 4150, like what was used for this test has MW sized runners.
The difference being that the port exits at the gasket are shrunk down to std port size on the ones for std port heads.

As you can see...... the ports CSA changing in size from MW size in the manifold down to std port size in the heads can do some strange things to the power curve.

The SD/4500 was the winner of this shootout smoke

DCF57C7C-A541-47D7-B91D-61877369E08F.jpegA47204D6-EB32-4CFB-BB86-7333F55CEC9D.jpeg30888240-49DA-499C-A31C-983EF95E3606.jpegA1BA07AE-0963-4AA3-8FCE-4238D3D4F0C7.jpeg

68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2773213
05/10/20 02:17 PM
05/10/20 02:17 PM
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Temperance, MI
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Looks like the SD did well. At 4900 the tm7 and SD killed the other setups.


68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2773215
05/10/20 02:23 PM
05/10/20 02:23 PM
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It may be hard to read, but this was a direct comparison of the M1 with a HVH 4500-4150 adapter vs my sandwich plate adapter. Both ran the same 1in 4 hole spacer. The HVH was down on power but pretty equal with the torque at 573 and a little earliler in the pull.

Dwayne did the valve job on my heads and picked out the SFT cam.

Attached PDF document
Dyno Test.pdf (29 downloads)
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2773223
05/10/20 03:31 PM
05/10/20 03:31 PM
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I ran an M1 4500 intake on my 451 that I had in my 65 Belvedere. Pump gas deal with an Indy SR head ultradyne .640" solid cam ran low/mid 10's driving it to the track at 3700lbs.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

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Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2773279
05/10/20 06:24 PM
05/10/20 06:24 PM
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I did a bunch of intake testing on my 470 engines and eventually came to the conclusion that for peak power the M1 4500 was the best standard port intake available. But it did require extensive porting to get there. That was the result on that engine, a different engine might want a different CSA and plenum size. But the Dominator carb always made a little more power than a big 4150 carb and the 4500 plenum always made more power than a 4150 + adapter so eventually I settled on the M1 4500 + a Dominator as the best combo. I usually used a 2 inch tall 4 to 1 merge type adapter but most cars aren't going to have room for a beast like that.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/test-intake-manifolds-carburetors-440-stroker-search-ultimate-power/

Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2773297
05/10/20 07:44 PM
05/10/20 07:44 PM
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Always an interesting topic with many results. My old mild RB stage VI mill I had the RB M1 with spacers and a Holley 850 4150. Ran that for years before swapping to a Stage VI 4500 and an ebay Carb Shop 1050. Picked up 5-6 mph and trap rpm went from 6200 to 6800. Dropped to a 4.10 gear to get the rpm in check and picked up a bit more. Prob the same UD-nf69 .640 grind Al had smile

Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: AndyF] #2773342
05/10/20 09:51 PM
05/10/20 09:51 PM
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Melbourne , Australia
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Originally Posted by AndyF
I did a bunch of intake testing on my 470 engines and eventually came to the conclusion that for peak power the M1 4500 was the best standard port intake available. But it did require extensive porting to get there. That was the result on that engine, a different engine might want a different CSA and plenum size. But the Dominator carb always made a little more power than a big 4150 carb and the 4500 plenum always made more power than a 4150 + adapter so eventually I settled on the M1 4500 + a Dominator as the best combo. I usually used a 2 inch tall 4 to 1 merge type adapter but most cars aren't going to have room for a beast like that.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/test-intake-manifolds-carburetors-440-stroker-search-ultimate-power/


A little off topic here, Andy, why did you guys make the shear plate/open spacer package so tall?


Alan Jones
Re: 4500 on a 4150 intake? [Re: LA360] #2773357
05/10/20 11:24 PM
05/10/20 11:24 PM
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Because we could.

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