Agreed, but that will be the tip of the iceberg, when we finally see the countries, groups and individuals who had a hand in the manipulation of this "virus" and profited greatly politically, monetarily and strategically in their end goals, that's when it'll get bad, not just on our home front, but abroad as well.....

All the "non-essentials" can see it this winter on Netflix when they sit out the "next Corona wave" watching the 3 part series of "Corvid19, the cover-up"....

Go back and read my entire post please.

You are implying that people staying away from contact with other people had no effect on the total number of cases at any particular time. Science and logic indicate that you are wrong.

I'm now wondering why you are being so sensitive about it.

Sensitive would not be an accurate description.
Annoyed, insulted and outright pissed off would be better.
There has been far too much bad information to the point that I trust almost nothing. 360View himself posts 20 links to articles each day, almost as if he is a paid poster here only doing it for the money.

A classic tactic for delivering misinformation is to bombard people with conflicting reports.

Was this Plandemic? If so, pretty much everything within in it is wrong.

https://arstechnica.com/science/202...-anti-vaxx-covid-19-conspiracy-theories/

I dunno, man, I’ve been trying to keep an open mind about it all since it started back in December, and it sometimes seems pretty overwhelming to be honest. I can say that I try to make my decisions based on facts (as can be best determined, and logic, trying to ask myself what I would do if I were in the position to make the decision between saving lives and keeping the economy going. I honestly don’t know how I would deal with it, other than to try to understand how the virus works, and go from there. Governments and societies around the world have been trying to figure it out, and some seem to have gotten it right, and some didn’t do so well.

There’s no point in me trying to place judgement on how anybody has done until it’s all over and we can look back on it. But yeah it’s kicked the crap out of all of us in many ways. Just try to survive it, is all I’m telling everybody these days...

This is panning out to be scary and frustrating at the same time. History tells us what we need to do to get through this. Those in control (world-wide) seem to be making decisions in means that are baffling. I think honesty and integrity should be paramount. People may not like what they are hearing. Getting through this is not a popularity contest and decisions should not be made based on that criteria. Doing what appears the right thing based on the best expertise available and sticking with the decision until proven wrong has always paid dividends in the end.

Common sense reply. Thank you.

My own common sense, tells me NOT to listen to ANY politician, about this pandemic, since none of them, do not want to help, or need to know me or my family personally.

They...(especially federal politicians) only want my vote, nothing more. So I will listen to MY OWN common sense, and get through this the best way I MYSELF
know how to do. Sooooo..... stay at the very least 6 feet away from me, and wear a damn mask on your face, if you are near me. I don't want, or need your covid cooties Because I'm gonna get busy living...not dying.

I also just want to mention that every single human life,(close to 80k in a few short months) that has been snuffed out, like a lit match in a windstorm, is worth infinitely more than ANY business in this country. Think about all of the family members, and friends, each and every one of these now dead people, has been touched by their death. It is just about too much to comprehend. The economy can come back to life, a dead person cannot.

****Thank you, very well said****.

Close to 80k dead you say? What is the source of that number?

Truth is, we have no idea how many people have died from this virus. And when it comes to confusing information, here is the best reason to doubt the numbers being thrown around. This is Illinois' Director of Public Health on how Illinois classifies Coronavirus deaths. And remember that all the statistics that you see from the CDC, etc comes from the states themselves.

If you don't listen to this official response from Director Ezike, you don't really care about the truth because this is how the data on this virus is tabulated here in Illinois.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEDjjl41xHU

That video is from April 23rd. I get why they played fast and lose with the criteria for counting Covid deaths - at the time the testing wasn't available so they errored on the side of caution. I'm curious if they're still using the same protocols for counting deaths now as I can get tested by driving through my local CVS. That and the fact the hospitals are now out of danger and we have breathing room to try and get accurate numbers.

This is going to sound cold, but total death counts are meaningless in crafting policy anyways. They're best used for emotional appeals. People need to come to grip with the fact that we can not quarantine long enough for this virus to go away. Civilization will collapse long before that point. The only thing that is going to burn it out is when it runs out of viable hosts through herd immunity by either natural anti-body production from previous infection or a vaccine. The area under the infection curve is NOT going to change in any meaningful way. The goal was always to draw it out to the point the peak doesn't poke above the total available resources to treat patients. Drawing this out any further will only serve to destroy the economy to no benefit - a vaccine is simply too far away.

The numbers to keep tabs on are hospitalization rates and available beds and vents. Overwhelm that and the death rate spikes. The best way forward right now is incremental reopening while monitoring hospitalization rate closely while at the same time letting high risk groups to continue to quarantine.

I read, rather than watched and in all parts of the US streaming is impossible. I found this quote:

"Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."

Given that, those people would have died anyway, to be ludicrous we are all born terminal. Would all deaths then be natural?
I intentionally pushed the pendelum, There are likely others falling off the other end and not classified covid related. Then there is the other spectrum welling up due to financial and mental strife, people pushed to the point of anguish they expire from substance abuse or suicide. I can imagine society will see a spike in those stats when all is done here. Many of the financial issues were welling up prior to covid (distraction of the wheels wobbling before falling off).

I'll never say that all the deaths reported as covid are correctly classified, nor can I say all covid deaths are being attributed. I do believe we need to ply into re-opening, carefully and be ready to either push forward, or retract if it goes badly. I also think it is insane to pay people large sums of money to stay home, perhaps only to learn to get by without being productive. Finally, it is time for the public to realize the luxuries previously enjoyed by many are not necessary to live. That will be a tough lesson for some people and also large companies.

Is too much emphasis being placed on old, infirm that the deaths of young, vibrant to covid are being ignored? Earlier in the thread someone posted a letter from a politician that focused on that point. What would his position be should he reversed his presentation to highlight the numbers of young, vibrant people dying?

I am not a paid poster.
I average posting here on this tread about 4 articles concerning coronaviruses.
I do speed read through many times more articles, the majority of them not on coronavirus.

I agree that some of the medical articles conflict with each other, maybe 15% to 30%, but that is not unusual.

50% of the financial and political articles conflict with one another.

It is presently a huge issue in worldwide science that
40% or more of the published experimental results claimed
cannot be “reproduced” by other scientists carefully following the original instructions.

It was previously assumed that a published experiment could be repeated 20 times and come out the same way 19 times. This is the so-called P=0.05, or said another way: 95% confidence interval.

Hacking is not just happening in the computer and internet world,
so called P-Hacking is happening at universities by those seeking jobs, money and the “tenured professor” status that can mean you have a lifetime job.

My original purpose in posting COVID-19 articles was that
I was going to read them to potentially protect myself
as an older man with one pre-existing medical condition (skipping heart beat since birth)
and I thought many Moparts members were “in the same boat.”

One special antibody from a Llama is already sold as a drug for humans.

Now it is hoped that a Llama antibody might work against COVID-19 in humans.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-belgian-llama-key-corona-treatment.html

Horse antibodies have long been used as snake bite anti-venom for humans.

The weekly radio show “The Peoples Pharmacy” was very informative this morning when they interviewed one of the world’s most experienced coronavirus researchers:

https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/articles/show-1211-a-conversation-with-the-coronavirus-hunter

Podcast available Monday.

Radio show repeated Saturday and Sunday on many stations

https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/find-a-radio-station

Hong Kong Doctors find 3 drug combo that helps

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-triple-antiviral-drug-combination-early.html

In response to your question as to whether Illinois is still using the methods outlined in the link I'll make a couple of points. First Dr. Ezike is still at her post. Second, Governor Pritzker has doubled down repeatedly on his controversial lock down of the state. Given those 2 things, there doesn't seem to be much incentive to loosen their definition of a Corona death.

And finally, let's look at a couple of graphs that Illinois has released. The first graph in the first press release shows that Corona death averages have been fairly level. If there has been a substantial change in the accounting method, it should be reflected in the averages. There is no sudden change in the averages.

https://www2.illinois.gov/dceo/Media/PressReleases/Pages/PR20200423.aspx

This second link has the current map of Illinois' Corona deaths. Of interest is that many counties (including ours) have no deaths, while many more show very few deaths. And that is despite the all-inclusive Corona death tabulations done by the Illinois Dept. of Public Health.

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/topics-services/diseases-and-conditions/diseases-a-z-list/coronavirus

There is nothing to indicate there has been any change in accounting methods while there does seem to be evidence that no change has occurred.

I do agree with you that the point is now is to not overextend the hospitals and such at any given time and place. But the lock-downs should have been much more targeted. Not one size fits all. A bit of over reaction in areas that were hard hit would not be a bad thing. But there are large swaths of rural America that are seeing far more damage from the shut down than they would from the virus alone.

So, I think that I agree with most of your post with the correction that rural areas without much infection should never have been locked-down and should be re-opened ... NOW ... not incrementally.

How do the logistics work?
Will sheriff or militia block the roads to keep out-of-towners/staters out?
I read Georgia is having that problem now, with fears of bringing/distributing hosts.

I've been following a lot of your posts in this thread and find myself agreeing with a lot of the points you've been making as well. I'm just not too sure about the immediately reopening of everything. SRT raised a very valid point also in the fact that you won't be able to stop people from jumping county borders to get access to services that are still closed in their own counties.

Maybe the reopening does still have to be handled on a State wide basis, but instead of classifying businesses as essential or non-essential to society based on the services they provide, all businesses capable of adhering to distancing standards should open (with reduced interior occupancy capacity) across the board. Keeping it even handed should reduce incentives for people moving about.

Having the State tell someone because they sell seeds they're nonessential, but having the recreational pot outlets open always struck me as horseshit.

In Washington Cabelas is closed as non-essential. Yet hot-tub stores are open. That is pure garbage.