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Re: Welding stock block [Re: moparacer] #2772299
05/07/20 11:08 PM
05/07/20 11:08 PM
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Ari440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by moparacer
Originally Posted by Ari440
Hello

I put together a B-1 combo and is using a stock 440 block

Just as I was going to drop the distributer in I found a crack on the front lifer bore

A machine shop told me they can fix it by putting a bar across the lifter valley and have it welded up

I have about $1.500 worth of machine work into this block

1975 440 block half fill, billet main caps , cam is 800/284 at @50

Seems this is a lot of side load and it cracked across the bore

Anyone do anything like this to a stock block






Also interested in hearing how much spring pressure you are running.

The exhaust lifter really shouldn't have much side load on it I think? shruggy



Not side load ............ but lift !

780/750 intake

284/292

110*


Don't remember the spring pressure is


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: Welding stock block [Re: Chargerfan68] #2772302
05/07/20 11:11 PM
05/07/20 11:11 PM
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Ari440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Chargerfan68
Ari
Sorry to hear about this, man! What is the difference in spring pressure from this cam/springs to the other motor you ran with Indy heads? That was a big cam with high pressures also, right? Just trying to reason if the block was weak in that area or spring pressure is just too high for stock lifter bores.


Both cams about the same


Indy ........ 800/277

B-1.......... 780/284


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: Welding stock block [Re: Ari440] #2772303
05/07/20 11:22 PM
05/07/20 11:22 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by Ari440
[q


I cranked the motor over hole got bigger and oil coming out of it

Primed the motor too oil cam out of it to
There is no oil galley close to that crack, are the lifter bores bushed?
If not I can't figure out how oil would be pushed out of that flaw under pressure confused shruggy
Are you sure it isn't flowing out the top of the bore and running down onto that area under pressure, I've seen that many, many times priming motors with the intake valley pans off. Mopar lifter to lifter bores are never really tight unless they been bushed or your lucky enough to have one of the old over size solid lifter sets shruggy
I think this block is talking to you about not using it for your race B1 motor work twocents I wouldn't tsk


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Welding stock block [Re: moparacer] #2772343
05/08/20 06:29 AM
05/08/20 06:29 AM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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IQuote [ Icranked the motor over hole got bigger and oil coming out of it ]
This is not good. If the hole gets bigger its flexing already. If if breaks off and the lifter falls into the cam what will it cost to fix?
Doug

Re: Welding stock block [Re: dvw] #2772354
05/08/20 07:45 AM
05/08/20 07:45 AM
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Ari440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dvw

IQuote [ Icranked the motor over hole got bigger and oil coming out of it ]
This is not good. If the hole gets bigger its flexing already. If if breaks off and the lifter falls into the cam what will it cost to fix?
Doug



$700.00 to fix it

Make a bar going across the valley

weld it up and put a bushing in it

Just hope if I get an other block that I don't need to do this again


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: Welding stock block [Re: Ari440] #2772366
05/08/20 08:33 AM
05/08/20 08:33 AM
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If you add up the cost of that block plus the repairs you are half way to a aftermarket block. Stop while you are ahead, save your money and get a good block. Sit out a year if you have to. If that lifter bore doesn't fail the mains will and you will be having to start from scratch. Can you afford that?

Re: Welding stock block [Re: Ari440] #2772372
05/08/20 09:05 AM
05/08/20 09:05 AM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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I know my stress tolerance, and I wouldn't run it (I'd always be listening for that "different" noise, fluctuating OP, vibration).
That block is still worth something to a buyer making a street car, but not after it breaks.


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Re: Welding stock block [Re: polyspheric] #2772373
05/08/20 09:22 AM
05/08/20 09:22 AM
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With what it costs to fill a block with parts save your money and buy a good block. If the block fails on the good side you have a pile of junk on the bad side you run through your own oil and destroy the car and maybe lose your life. A stock block was designed for how many horsepower? 400HP? So you take a stock block bore it, make it weaker then stuff parts in it to make 700HP to 800HP, so why do they crack, just stop and think about it? I was racing before mopars had aftermarket blocks, I filled blocks, billet caps, aluminum caps, main girdles, etc. I never lost an engine, but three seasons was the best I got. When I took them apart to freshen, cracks, cylinders were barrel shaped, main caps loose in the saddles, had to throw away and start over. A good aftermarket block is the single best investment you can make if you like racing mopars.

Re: Welding stock block [Re: jwb123] #2772501
05/08/20 03:02 PM
05/08/20 03:02 PM
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Just offering an opinion here, but that crack would trouble me more if it were on the other side of the galley. A plate and a good build up from a good welder, and I'd worry less than if there was no crack. Again just an opinion.

Re: Welding stock block [Re: dthemi] #2772522
05/08/20 04:01 PM
05/08/20 04:01 PM
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We have done this type of repair many times.If your afraid to just weld it then have a bronze bushing installed then clean and grind the crack using a nickle rod just weld a tiny spot and quickly peen it with a chipping hammer wait till you can touch the spot with your finger, weld then repeat the process with each spot weld ,peen cool,weld peen cool.until you have welded the entire crack.You may have to weld over the first weld a second time just use the same process "do not rush the procees"Too much weld and heat will just brittilize the iron and cause more cracking.After your finished hone the bronze bore for proper lifter fit.

Re: Welding stock block [Re: B G Racing] #2772532
05/08/20 04:55 PM
05/08/20 04:55 PM
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I had a stock 400 block get the inner valve head bolt holes get broken when the guy stripped it down and didn't know they were there on one side. A good block welder, Ted Fischer at engine systems welded them back on, decked it and as far as I know they're still there. We ran that motor 8600 rpm...mercilessly

Re: Welding stock block [Re: dthemi] #2772604
05/08/20 08:04 PM
05/08/20 08:04 PM
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Ari440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dthemi
I had a stock 400 block get the inner valve head bolt holes get broken when the guy stripped it down and didn't know they were there on one side. A good block welder, Ted Fischer at engine systems welded them back on, decked it and as far as I know they're still there. We ran that motor 8600 rpm...mercilessly



What was the combo to run 8600rpm,s


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: Welding stock block [Re: Ari440] #2772617
05/08/20 08:52 PM
05/08/20 08:52 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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I don't think the question is "can it possibly be fixed?", but rather "does fixing it always work?".
Trust me, the welder will not give you a new engine if he's wrong, in fact I suspect the repair authorization will specifically disclaim any guarantee of results, but rather that "the work contracted will be completed in a professional and competent manner".
Yes, I used to write this stuff.


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Re: Welding stock block [Re: Ari440] #2773219
05/10/20 02:51 PM
05/10/20 02:51 PM
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What was the combo to run 8600rpm,s


Low compression, 400 with stealth heads, I won the mopar muscle engine challenge with it a few years back. Was dynoed at comp cams facility with the other competitors. We turned it over 9 at home before the competition. Peak power on on pump gas was around 650 hp if I recall, been a while. We'd made closer to 700 earlier but I damaged it a few times at home playing with oil and windage. Stock steel crank, turned .04, and the counterweights cut almost off, among other things.

Re: Welding stock block [Re: dthemi] #2773276
05/10/20 06:20 PM
05/10/20 06:20 PM
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Weld it then put a cam with less aggressive lift-duration, run it have fun. Why do people chase numbers?

Re: Welding stock block [Re: cudaman1969] #2773341
05/10/20 09:42 PM
05/10/20 09:42 PM
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Ari440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Weld it then put a cam with less aggressive lift-duration, run it have fun. Why do people chase numbers?




I'm going to get it welded if it works........ good..... if not...... selling the B-1 setup

Hoping for a mid to low 9,s pass for a 3400 pound car !


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: Welding stock block [Re: Ari440] #2773347
05/10/20 10:05 PM
05/10/20 10:05 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Ari,who did the machine work and who is going to weld it. It must be stich welded as Bob described.


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Re: Welding stock block [Re: hemi-itis] #2773352
05/10/20 10:17 PM
05/10/20 10:17 PM
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Ari440 Offline OP
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I'm not going to bad mouth people it's not there fault this happened


Bob at ACE crankshaft in dearpark is going to weld it


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
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