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Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: lilcuda] #2771439
05/05/20 01:48 PM
05/05/20 01:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,498
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by lilcuda
I'm still trying to figure out what a "cam beefy install" is. grin


3/4 cam, except beefier. Duh.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Cometstorm] #2771443
05/05/20 01:55 PM
05/05/20 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,664
South Dakota
hotairballoonpilot Offline
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Posts: 5,664
South Dakota
Originally Posted by Cometstorm
So,

Wife and I have a prestine 2010 Buick LaCrosse CSX that is our main interstate travel car. Perfect shape, well maintained, still looks new and even has the "new car ambience" inside and out. just turned 60,000 largely interstate miles.

Our "go to" maintenance place closed up last year, so I took it to a different local shop for a routine emissions test. The manager was "VERY WELCOMING" upon my drop off. We even struck up a Vanishing Point / Two Lane Blacktop conversation.

Let me backup and say this place did a cam beefy install and head work on my 1970 Vanishing Point Challenger in about 2000. Wonderful job, but the place switched ownership a few years ago.

So anyway, they call me a few hours later....and say I really "should" have the oil changed, "according to the windshield sticker, it is due." I say, let me check my computer records, as I think I had it done recently.

Sure enough, it was done in January. Full synthetic (as always), less than 1000 miles since. He still says, that it really should be changed. I say, even though it's synthetic??? He says yup, still breaks down.

I understand this, but not THIS quick! whistling

Then, he says their "full vehicle check" shows an abnormal amount of copper in the brake lines. Suggests an exchange,and says the manual calls for it.

Now, that may be manual wise...but I've never had it done.

Now, to add to the issue: The Buick (always garaged) has now been parked outside under a great tarp for the past several months. Bought a newer car, so one had to go outside.

When I drive it to this place (Driven for the first time in a couple months), I noticed a slight "thumping" when i hit the brakes at city speed. Just prior to the final stop. I mention it to them, to please check. I suspect it was just a light coating of moisture rust due to sitting outside in the early Spring.

They say they test drove it, and experienced the same thing. Said it may be nothing and will wear off, but could be more serious. They wanted $70 for a "brake inspection."

When I try to converse with him on some of this, his ultimate response was: "It's your car, do what you want."

Sooooooooooo, I go to pick it up and pay the $24.00 emissions fee.

Seems like no one would even converse, or make eye contact with me.

When my 2012 Challenger SXT Plus comes due for emissions (16,000 miles), or anything else.... I will not repeat the same mistake! hammer


What do you do for a living? That shop as well as the techs have to make a living. They make a living by providing a service after years of experience and training. Had you had that years of experience and training and tools and equipment you would not have had to have them work on your car. I have a good friend who is a Kia mechanic. He just got back to work 2 weeks ago from self quarantine himself from possible exposure to COVID-19. He said the dealership has 3 total techs, The 1st week back he said they had 3 or 4 jobs scheduled for that week for the 3 guys. Shops are hurting just like everyone else. So if they spend time working on your vehicle with services your requested them to do. Then by rights they should be commentated for the services. Yes there are times when a shop or tech can and do go out of their way to help someone out but this day and age we are ALL going through. That just I think will be less. Just think of it this way. Had that shop and tech not worked on your car. they either could of been working on something else providing an income for both parties.


Contact Me about AMD Prices
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2771444
05/05/20 01:57 PM
05/05/20 01:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,498
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Unless there is a real issue, a brake inspection in my world is look at the pads and verify no leaks. Done. A lot of the time it can be done without removing the wheels. Unless it has a real concern - pulling, pulsating, losing fluid, lights on, park brake hanging or something obvious - I'm not going to spend a lot of time tearing stuff apart to look at it.

The brake fluid I get. It does get nasty and degrade. However, that would be done at the same time as a brake service/pad change.

Again, I would have been done with this guy early on. I would have pushed the car off the lot before letting him do any work. Don't BS me.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2771447
05/05/20 02:06 PM
05/05/20 02:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,498
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Reminds me of a service writer I had years ago. Nice looking young couple come in with a really nice looking Golden Retriever.

Service writer makes all over the dog, petting it, making friends and tells the people about the dog he had, but sadly, had gotten old and had to be put down recently. Sold them everything but the kitchen sink.

I'm a dog person so later I asked him about his dog. He says "I never had one of those filthy stinkin things. I just told them that $#!^."


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: not_a_charger] #2771454
05/05/20 02:24 PM
05/05/20 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 915
Sarnia, Ontario
restoman Offline
super stock
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Posts: 915
Sarnia, Ontario
Originally Posted by not_a_charger


Every single time I dealt with a customer who said their 10 year old (or older) vehicle was in "perfect condition," I knew there were going to be problems.


Yup. Red flags arise when I hear that...


"look Daddy! Everytime Danica leads a lap, a redneck chokes to death on a corndog!"
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: lilcuda] #2771468
05/05/20 03:04 PM
05/05/20 03:04 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,559
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
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Posts: 6,559
Downtown Roebuck Ont
What's the door rate? Around here most shops are around $100 +/- so if they did any kind of useful inspection with a road test, you burnt at least a half hour of their time. I don't think $70 is unreasonable for a walk in. If you were regular customer you might get a pass on some of those deals but I never expect it.

The upselling always annoys me. If they find something legitimately wrong in the course of the inspection, I want to know about it and if it's something critical I'll likely have it fixed while it's there but trying to con you into an oil change just because with some lame excuse about the oil breaks down is just plain crooked.

Kevin

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2771485
05/05/20 04:10 PM
05/05/20 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,106
Tucson, AZ
Ramrod39 Offline
My New Title
Ramrod39  Offline
My New Title

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Posts: 9,106
Tucson, AZ
Quote
3/4 cam, except beefier. Duh.


haha

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Ramrod39] #2771491
05/05/20 04:25 PM
05/05/20 04:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,877
Virginia
BSharp Offline
master
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Posts: 4,877
Virginia
Technically, that's a 3/4 race cam.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: 3hundred] #2771497
05/05/20 04:41 PM
05/05/20 04:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,941
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
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WI
Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by Hrtbkr
I'm curious about copper in the brake fluid myself.


It was news to me as well. I thought brake fluid contamination was a concern primarily because of ABS modules, figured it was because of moisture. Apparently that's not as much a concern anymore. The copper comes from the brake lines indicating a breakdown of the brake fluid additive package. Didn't even know it had a additive package.

Diagnostic fees wasn't even a term when I was a mechanic in the 1970's. Never heard of it until the 1980's. The quoted fee sounds high to me to put it on a lift, pull the wheels and drums if any. 20 minutes work? I think my record for 4 tires and balance was ~ 45 minutes back in the day.

The shops attitude when the work was declined was the only thing that bothered me. That's not how you treat a customer. It's not like the pads were gone and riding on metal or tires down to the cord. Nothing imminently dangerous here.


Yep...brake fluid changes are recommended service by most manufactures

You can certainly pull wheels in 20 minutes or so....but what if work is required....another 20-30 min. writing an estimate. Now you're at an hour...$100 at a lot of places. Then the customer declines the work. You doing all that for free? Doubtful

We have no idea of pad/rotor/drum/caliper/hose condition...nobody ever looked...the inspection was declined.

Here's a thought...customer brings the car in with a brake concern, road test verifies the concern. Shop says "oh it'll likely go away" Sends the customer on his way and the brakes fail......who do you think will be on the hook? In this case the shop's recommendation was a complete brake inspection. The customer declined to have his brakes looked at...now he goes down the road and something happens.... the shop has something to stand on....remember this is all on the repair order. It's called CYA.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Dcuda69] #2771540
05/05/20 06:16 PM
05/05/20 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
I wonder if anybody that replied to this post ever had to fill out the new safety inspection sheets yet that have become mandatory in most larger shops and dealerships. Some repair shops call it the "free" 49 point safety inspection and being flat rate guess how much I get paid for this "free" inspection that the dealer doesn't charge for shruggy $0.0 dollars. I am required to do this inspection on every car that comes in even if it is a simple recall or ECM re-flash to customize your door locks.
This: Here's a thought...customer brings the car in with a brake concern, road test verifies the concern. Shop says "oh it'll likely go away" Sends the customer on his way and the brakes fail......who do you think will be on the hook? In this case the shop's recommendation was a complete brake inspection. The customer declined to have his brakes looked at...now he goes down the road and something happens.... the shop has something to stand on....remember this is all on the repair order. It's called CYA.
People leave the dealership after a small service even a simple oil change and something happens on the way home they will be back and if you don't have the "free" document saying the car was fine when it left guess what ... The tech that looked at it is now liable for it. CYA is an understatement in this litigious society we live in.
You used to be able to get by on $1000 dollars woth of tools to do your job but now that just won't cut it anymore. The costs to run shop anymore will break the independents now in this climate so give them a break and pay for the damn inspection so you can feel safe.
This is the end of my "repair shop customer venting" argue

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2771542
05/05/20 06:27 PM
05/05/20 06:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
Damn 4g ..... I GUS you picked the wrong biz to get into ... pity tonguue

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: dOc !] #2771654
05/05/20 11:23 PM
05/05/20 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
ny
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twobolts Offline
member
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
ny
https://youtu.be/o81GjHj4z4s

Don’t know if the link works, but check out stripdip. Pretty good video explanation of copper in brake lines. Brake fluid absorbs moisture and degrades, gives you a soft pedal and moisture in system causes corrosion. When was the last time your brake fluid was flushed? Sounds like a professional operation to me. Maybe shop didn’t explain properly or customer didn’t understand? Just because the shop was recommending a service doesn’t mean they were trying to rob you. Call any properly trained professional. plumber, electrian,doctor etc to diagnose a problem.. time is money

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: twobolts] #2771663
05/05/20 11:55 PM
05/05/20 11:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

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Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
2b .... that linky works fine ... but the apimp selling his snake oil seems to TOTALLY FORGET about the biggest offender of corrosion... that’s moisture.... tsk

I’ll let the guys who have done WAY MORE brake jobs than me handle this for awhile ..,, I’ve been up nearly 18 hours.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: dOc !] #2771680
05/06/20 01:56 AM
05/06/20 01:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
ny
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twobolts Offline
member
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ny
StripDip has been around for a long time. The copper content is an indicator of how much moisture is in the system.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: twobolts] #2771744
05/06/20 10:31 AM
05/06/20 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,767
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,767
St. Louis, Missouri area
Come on guys, give me a brake! (Pun intended)

When I said car is “perfect,”.... I obviously meant in a relative sense, not absolute. No car is truly perfect, even off the showroom floor (if you want to take it that far).

“Beefy cam?” Just a quick expression. It’s been nearly 20 years and I no longer have that particular Challenger, so I forget the cam specs.

The slight right front wheel slight bass pulsing sound before stop was only noticed when driving there (two city miles), after sitting tarped d for six or so weeks. I just wanted a quick visual check of the one wheel.

As mentioned, that appears to have gone away after several more miles.

As to the repair shop issue at hand, I appreciate all the input.

My trusted mechanic shop closed (retired), so I was used to his top shelf service for many years.

All that being said, I still feel my chain was being pulled.

First clue I should have picked up on;

They wouldn’t let me wait for a simple emissions check, even by appointment.

They insisted I drop it off four several hours for their free multi-point car inspection. whistling

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Cometstorm] #2771778
05/06/20 11:58 AM
05/06/20 11:58 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,220
nowhere
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Sniper Offline
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Sniper  Offline
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Posts: 6,220
nowhere
And your wait likely had less to do with the inspection and more to do with scheduling, stuff backs up. But if you are determined to find fault, you will.

I occasionally hear a commercial on the radio talking about defending your reputation online. They have a customer troll about how the place told him they would shrink his bill and he bitches that the writing on the bill is small enough as it is and he can barely read it, he doesn't want it any smaller. That sounds like this thread.

Don't want to get "ripped off" do your own work then come here and talk about the competency of your new mechanic.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Cometstorm] #2771819
05/06/20 01:21 PM
05/06/20 01:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,498
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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CMcAllister  Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by Cometstorm
Come on guys, give me a brake! (Pun intended)

When I said car is “perfect,”.... I obviously meant in a relative sense, not absolute. No car is truly perfect, even off the showroom floor (if you want to take it that far).

“Beefy cam?” Just a quick expression. It’s been nearly 20 years and I no longer have that particular Challenger, so I forget the cam specs.

The slight right front wheel slight bass pulsing sound before stop was only noticed when driving there (two city miles), after sitting tarped d for six or so weeks. I just wanted a quick visual check of the one wheel.

As mentioned, that appears to have gone away after several more miles.

As to the repair shop issue at hand, I appreciate all the input.

My trusted mechanic shop closed (retired), so I was used to his top shelf service for many years.

All that being said, I still feel my chain was being pulled.

First clue I should have picked up on;

They wouldn’t let me wait for a simple emissions check, even by appointment.

They insisted I drop it off four several hours for their free multi-point car inspection. whistling


Wouldn't let you wait for a 10 minute job? A lot of things going on with that shop that would make me want to just call someone else. I have to wonder if they would have called you with a $1200 brake job estimate, and by the way, we have your brakes all apart and lying all over the floor for the "inspection".


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: lilcuda] #2771841
05/06/20 03:42 PM
05/06/20 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,064
Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,064
Niles , Ohio
We used to do frre brake checks at the shop.Then it came that we spent 3 to 4 hours a day at times doing free work.Then we got oh my buddy can do the brakes for nothing.So we started charging 20 bucks This was like 15 years ago.If they needed brakes we took the charge off.As said some places do oversell.I always tried not to push anything not needed.Alsao as stated people want free.Like diag time.Lets see back then scanner was over 2K plus upgrades Hads to have time to scan then have All Data etc Let alone the tech I have like 40K in tools that I had to buy.Yeah i liked when people said its nice the sahop buys you all those tools.Let alone they think iof labor is say 80 bucks an hour thats what you make.Ask how many would spend that much on stuff for work let alone testing for certs,school to keep up with new stuff etc.Oh yeah stand in water,snow,in and out hot and cold burn yourself cut your self etc.All for what less that 20 bucks and hour and it was lots less>Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: therocks] #2771843
05/06/20 03:50 PM
05/06/20 03:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
A 1200$ brake job .... paying the grunt that does it 20 beans per hour ? eek

Something is wrong with THAT PICTURE !!

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: therocks] #2771856
05/06/20 04:57 PM
05/06/20 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,498
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
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Fulton County, PA
I have learned people will take anything you're giving away for free just as long as you are willing to do it. And once you do it, they expect it.

An oil change should be considered a service. Maybe include a "free" tire rotation if you want. Just make sure the time is covered. A quick glance at the brakes and tires while doing that. Look around for leaks, stuff falling off, belts, lights, while the oil is draining and while you're adding oil and topping fluids. It really doesn't need to be an hours long production dissecting everything. People soon figure out whether you're looking out for them or for yourself.

An in depth inspection is offered at some places for a set price, maybe an hour. Often it is sold as a used car inspection service or a Spring get the car ready service.

Doing annual inspections are when you really look for needed stuff you can sell, especially since it HAS to be fixed.

Two of the best pieces of advice I've received is "If you're good at what you do, don't do it for free." And "Sometimes you're better off firing a customer." The 19.95 oil change - free inspection places are a magnet for tight wads, cheapskates & FSA types who want someone to give them everything. They go to the auto parts for the "free diagnostic" that ain't worth spit, buy the part and expect you to install it for $10. Then want you to fix it for free when it doesn't fix the car. I know all about that from both the shop and the auto parts side of it..

This guy started out fine. OP was comfortable with the guy. Then the guy went into "get as much as I can out of this guy while the getiin's good" mode, tried to BS him and ended up screwing himself. Do good work, get paid for it, don't BS the customer or take advantage of them. If they are a regular and not a PIA an occasional favor for goodwill is fine. And if "Mr. I did you a favor and brought my own parts" shows up, send him down the road.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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