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B1 Intake options? #2768242
04/25/20 07:57 PM
04/25/20 07:57 PM
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n20mstr Offline OP
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OK, other threads and my engine has me thinking, what options are out there for B1 intakes? Im told mine is holding my combination back. The runners are too long with the spacers, so whats the option? Im thinking cut it down the middle, bolt it to the heads and fill in the plenum? Has anyone modified a B1 intake? Also why is it SO thick and heavy? LOL
I have seen Indy intakes modified to fit on a B1 , any one do that? and did it help compared to the B1 intake?
Just looking to see what others have done, im not the normal bracket racer, and my combination is tailored to a lot of nitrous or whatever it takes to make 1500+ ?


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: n20mstr] #2768345
04/26/20 09:18 AM
04/26/20 09:18 AM
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NW Indiana
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I know Best Machine has used the Indy 440-3x with adapters on B1 engines. I did an FBS single dominator manifold once. Its basically a B1 manifold with the flange end altered to fit FBS heads. Cut the floor out and raised it in the plenum area and reduced the runner taper a bit. Had 121% VE on the dyno. I'm not familiar with the cubic inch of your engine. Alot depends on that and the rpm you run it to. Being a nitrous motor I don't know that the manifold is a problem.

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: fbs63] #2768356
04/26/20 10:09 AM
04/26/20 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by fbs63
I know Best Machine has used the Indy 440-3x with adapters on B1 engines. I did an FBS single dominator manifold once. Its basically a B1 manifold with the flange end altered to fit FBS heads. Cut the floor out and raised it in the plenum area and reduced the runner taper a bit. Had 121% VE on the dyno. I'm not familiar with the cubic inch of your engine. Alot depends on that and the rpm you run it to. Being a nitrous motor I don't know that the manifold is a problem.


my reason is , my engine stops making power at 7300 on the dyno. the engine is 530" .So far when racing it, i shift at 7400 and have crossed at 7900 and recently with a converter change 7700. Im thinking im leaving power on the table here. Then again it was only dyno NA, not with nitrous. I know what Chuck has done with those intakes and that is mostly on NA motors. I have never asked Chuck what he has done on nitrous engines. WHen i asked why the power stopped at 7300, i was told Intake and Headers, they both too long. My headers are a copy of the proparts and are stepped 2 1/8 2 1/4 with a 4" collector. The problem is some of the tubes are almost 36-38" long. THey should be 25" long.
I also do have to comply to a "cast intake" rule, racing in Ultra Street.

Last edited by n20mstr; 04/26/20 10:12 AM.

....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: n20mstr] #2768439
04/26/20 02:25 PM
04/26/20 02:25 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Does your car have a race pack or other data reading and storage? If so when does the RPM rate per second start to slow down in 2nd gear?
if it isn't below 7900 RPM you may be short shifting it now.
A engine dyno using a water break is nothing like the motor has to deal with in the car, I learned a long time ago to use the dyno to get the motor close on timing ad jetting and finish the tuning in the car based off of the spark plugs and time slips.
I change the shift RPM by 300 RPM last year in my S/P car from 7000 RPM up to 7300 RPM, the car ran 8.886 at 148.3 MPH having it shift at 7000 RPM, Powerglide 5300 stall nine inch converter with a Biondo 400 box and Biondo air shifter, moving the shift RPM up to 7300 RPM made my car run 8.886 at 150.6 MPH 45 minutes later shruggy
I would try shifting yours higher in 200 to 500 RPM increments to find the best shift RPM with your combination twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2768448
04/26/20 03:47 PM
04/26/20 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Does your car have a race pack or other data reading and storage? If so when does the RPM rate per second start to slow down in 2nd gear?
if it isn't below 7900 RPM you may be short shifting it now.
A engine dyno using a water break is nothing like the motor has to deal with in the car, I learned a long time ago to use the dyno to get the motor close on timing ad jetting and finish the tuning in the car based off of the spark plugs and time slips.
I change the shift RPM by 300 RPM last year in my S/P car from 7000 RPM up to 7300 RPM, the car ran 8.886 at 148.3 MPH having it shift at 7000 RPM, Powerglide 5300 stall nine inch converter with a Biondo 400 box and Biondo air shifter, moving the shift RPM up to 7300 RPM made my car run 8.886 at 150.6 MPH 45 minutes later shruggy
I would try shifting yours higher in 200 to 500 RPM increments to find the best shift RPM with your combination twocents


since i have nothing but time, im going to start looking at the racepak for that !
i am racing 1/8 mile and right now need to find a lot of ET in the 60 and 330, BUT more mph will always help !
I do have an elctric shifter so moving the shift up 200rpm at a time is easy and precise. Thanks


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: n20mstr] #2768474
04/26/20 05:19 PM
04/26/20 05:19 PM
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NYC
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Getting back to your B1 intake question if you were to use an Indy intake would you use a low deck version and the B1 spacers to make that a possibility

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: n20mstr] #2768533
04/26/20 08:00 PM
04/26/20 08:00 PM
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Melbourne , Australia
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
OK, other threads and my engine has me thinking, what options are out there for B1 intakes? Im told mine is holding my combination back. The runners are too long with the spacers, so whats the option? Im thinking cut it down the middle, bolt it to the heads and fill in the plenum? Has anyone modified a B1 intake? Also why is it SO thick and heavy? LOL
I have seen Indy intakes modified to fit on a B1 , any one do that? and did it help compared to the B1 intake?
Just looking to see what others have done, im not the normal bracket racer, and my combination is tailored to a lot of nitrous or whatever it takes to make 1500+ ?


I don't know what equipment you have access to Tony, but you could cut the intake in half and weld flanges on so it bolts together in the centre. There is a bunch of material in the plenum of those intakes, you could get some material out of there, while you are there (if you haven't already).

Those castings could certainly go on a diet, someone should do a lightening program for them, not that many people would use it.


Alan Jones
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: LA360] #2768540
04/26/20 08:27 PM
04/26/20 08:27 PM
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Romeo MI
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Originally Posted by LA360
Originally Posted by n20mstr
OK, other threads and my engine has me thinking, what options are out there for B1 intakes? Im told mine is holding my combination back. The runners are too long with the spacers, so whats the option? Im thinking cut it down the middle, bolt it to the heads and fill in the plenum? Has anyone modified a B1 intake? Also why is it SO thick and heavy? LOL
I have seen Indy intakes modified to fit on a B1 , any one do that? and did it help compared to the B1 intake?
Just looking to see what others have done, im not the normal bracket racer, and my combination is tailored to a lot of nitrous or whatever it takes to make 1500+ ?


I don't know what equipment you have access to Tony, but you could cut the intake in half and weld flanges on so it bolts together in the centre. There is a bunch of material in the plenum of those intakes, you could get some material out of there, while you are there (if you haven't already).

Those castings could certainly go on a diet, someone should do a lightening program for them, not that many people would use it.


I did that on my W-9 intake
wave

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2768541
04/26/20 08:30 PM
04/26/20 08:30 PM
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Deland, Florida
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Tony are you still using the stock cam core size?

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: biff426] #2768572
04/26/20 09:42 PM
04/26/20 09:42 PM
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COLUMBUS, OH
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Tony,

We run indy intakes on B1's with good success by utilizing the adapters from Best.

Casey FJ

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: biff426] #2768580
04/26/20 10:12 PM
04/26/20 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by biff426
Tony are you still using the stock cam core size?
yes stock cam core


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: n20mstr] #2768591
04/26/20 10:52 PM
04/26/20 10:52 PM
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When I bought Steffs Challenger and was running it NA, we had the same issues you are having. I had several conversations with some in the know guys and the general consensus was that the stock cam core was inducing a ton of valve train instability. With the weight of the pushrods 9/16 and the valve and the spring pressure needed with 7500=8000 RPM the cam was twisting I did verify after 20 runs 8200 rpm trap the cam was a pretzel. The single biggest upgrade according to Bishoff and Alan Johnson was to step up to a 55mm cam core. They both told me the B1 intake was not the thing holding the combo back. I never got a chance to put the 55mm cam in I bought it and just gave up on the program. Thought I would pass this info along.

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: biff426] #2768799
04/27/20 05:45 PM
04/27/20 05:45 PM
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Im an NA guy so cant directly answer your question there. With the spacers it is a LONG runner for sure, but is it the reason the thing wont RPM, I would question that.But I agree that if you want to see more RPM you will likely needed to step up to a bigger core. Not knowing exactly what you are running for spring pressure, pushrods etc but I would imagine you could see a good improvement from that aspect alone.


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Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2769011
04/28/20 09:33 AM
04/28/20 09:33 AM
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Couple questions. Stainless or Ti intakes? Is the rpm limit in the car on HP, while spraying it or both? I agree that a larger cam core would help. The 557 B1 I had would not pull past about 7600 till I put Ti intakes in it. That was HP only.

Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: fbs63] #2769025
04/28/20 10:25 AM
04/28/20 10:25 AM
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I have been told numerous times by multiple engine builders/shops that they can pick up 3-500 RPM simply by stabbing Ti valves in an engine. All of them advised me to run Ti intakes and exhaust valves if possible on my new engine. I was also told to keep the spring pressure under 950 over the nose with the stock cam core. My new cam is about .800 net lift and I will spring it with a 1.520 OD double that is about 350/950 and go from there. Following along with the advice I was given above we are trying to avoid a giant 1.625+ spring with valvetrain weight savings in mind.

Shiloh would be a good guy to talk to about this.



Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: Jeremiah] #2769131
04/28/20 02:21 PM
04/28/20 02:21 PM
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Titanium valves would also be a good addition but Id bet you already have them, at least on the intake side. If you are spraying a lot might be other/better options on the exhast side. A B1 intake valve is like the intake, big and heavy and most are replaced with titanium early on.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2769234
04/28/20 07:35 PM
04/28/20 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Titanium valves would also be a good addition but Id bet you already have them, at least on the intake side. If you are spraying a lot might be other/better options on the exhast side. A B1 intake valve is like the intake, big and heavy and most are replaced with titanium early on.


Yes TI intakes , Inconel EX
It will RPM, just doesnt make much more power past 7300, at least NA on the dyno.
In the car its been 7900+ at the stripe with a loose converter , with the tighter conv its crossing at 7700 and a lot less % slippage same MPH. Now it can and is getting more Nitrous jet, but i am wondering what can be done to make more power above 7300 NA


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: fbs63] #2769239
04/28/20 07:39 PM
04/28/20 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fbs63
Couple questions. Stainless or Ti intakes? Is the rpm limit in the car on HP, while spraying it or both? I agree that a larger cam core would help. The 557 B1 I had would not pull past about 7600 till I put Ti intakes in it. That was HP only.


It made the most HP at 7300 on the dyno, after 7300 it really not picking up a lot of HP. It does RPM past 7300.
It has TI intake valves
No motor passes , it gets N20 every pass.


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: biff426] #2769240
04/28/20 07:40 PM
04/28/20 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by biff426
When I bought Steffs Challenger and was running it NA, we had the same issues you are having. I had several conversations with some in the know guys and the general consensus was that the stock cam core was inducing a ton of valve train instability. With the weight of the pushrods 9/16 and the valve and the spring pressure needed with 7500=8000 RPM the cam was twisting I did verify after 20 runs 8200 rpm trap the cam was a pretzel. The single biggest upgrade according to Bishoff and Alan Johnson was to step up to a 55mm cam core. They both told me the B1 intake was not the thing holding the combo back. I never got a chance to put the 55mm cam in I bought it and just gave up on the program. Thought I would pass this info along.


thanks for the advice


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: B1 Intake options? [Re: n20mstr] #2769265
04/28/20 08:42 PM
04/28/20 08:42 PM
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I agree that Ti is easier on the valve train. Consider the valve train being stable at the RPM of max power. I don't see any reason that it'll make power at a higher RPM. If the port/cam/intake combo is done at a given RPM, its done. Thoughts?
Doug

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