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Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2767271
04/22/20 11:21 PM
04/22/20 11:21 PM
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Jefferson State
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Seems the plan should be to minimize deaths, find a vaccine and to formulate a safe and viable means to create some new economic model.
I cannot see society of January 2020 in January 2021. Packed concerts, theaters, black fridays, sport stadiums, PooF, gone.
Is anyone working on a model to re-open? Pumping $ into businesses that will not be here next year is a very bad idea.There is a lot of "shopping" and "services" that I do not think will adapt and survive. Good chance it's time for some business to up their internet presence or plan on shutting doors.
I cut my hair last night, no gouges and my wife didn't notice, so, had to be pretty good. I've been doing it for a few years now since the local barber closed shop. I sewed a face mask to use when shopping, my mom was a seamstress and taught me how to not sew my fingers to fabric back in the 60's, the skill came back easily. I already do my own mechanical, carpentry, gardening and vegetable gardening. I can't cobble shoes, yet have many pairs new and old. What I'm getting at is everyone can make do for awhile without risking making it to January 2022 (hope for a vaccine by then).
I spent the day pruning olive trees and cutting suckers from fruit trees and contemplated the recent news reports of cities/counties/states re-opening their economies. It has to happen, it will undoubtedly place more people in the position to be a statistic (ill/dead/recovered). The young may do o.k. the business owners will be the most prone. I also do not see a scene like the start of a horse race, the gates will open and shyness will prevail, there will be no lemming-like rush off a cliff. Statistics will likely climb and people and/or the govt may be placed in the position to shut down again, and spend more. It's hard to say that some businesses need to realize the end was last month.
Fortunately, we cannot change the past, we can guide the future, and certainly each individual can make the personal choice to lay low and get through this.

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: srt] #2767288
04/23/20 12:56 AM
04/23/20 12:56 AM
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Bitopia
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The concert business will be decimated from a technical production standpoint. The artists still have a limited income stream when sitting on the couch. Their life style might downsize but they will eat. The promoters, when the business starts back up only need a phone, and a check book, assuming they have contacts and their expertise. One could guess there are 10-100 behind the scenes personnel currently out of work for every person performing onstage. They have normally no other income streams. We are talking audio techs/engineers. lighting techs, band techs, managers, stage hands, truck drivers, security, caterers, stage techs, set builders, pyro techs, video techs, riggers, electricians, bus drivers, parking lot workers, building staff/maintenance, etc. many of these people are attracted to the industry when in their younger years by the "bright Lights", and often as they age, and gain responsibilities among other things, they leave the industry. This sudden downturn will greatly IMO hasten that. Some of these techs are very bright and creative, and will venture into more typical 9-5 employment to enjoy time with their families.

I suspect the live concert industry might be the last industry to return(?) to Pre Covid days. That likely will not matter to most outside the industry. The companies that employ many of the above workers, are normally rather leveraged by the constant need to lease/buy always the latest new thing to stay competitive. Going beyond 3? months without income is not possible. There are very few other options for income with their equipment inventory. A very few of the heavy hitter vendors can survive, but they are way too pricey, inefficient cost wise, and not interested in servicing the regional concert industry upon a restart. Anyone thinking of investing $1,000,000+ to enter the industry to maybe turn a profit upon a restart is taking a huge risk, besides getting a qualified/trained crew together will be rather tough.

The world will go on without concerts, but it will be a different world.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: jcc] #2767298
04/23/20 02:06 AM
04/23/20 02:06 AM
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Here's another reason we all need to work to flatten the curve. The longer we can push this out, the more data we get on how to best treat it.

Quote
Unlike with other forms of pneumonia, they found that COVID-19 patients were unusually damaged by invasive ventilation but also able to tolerate higher levels of anoxia -- to the point that one doctor recalls having to tell patients to get off their cellphones so that they could be intubated. The recommendation is that guidelines be adjusted to discourage invasive ventilation unless a patient is physically struggling to breathe, rather than relying strictly on oxygen levels; otherwise, the use of non-invasive ventilation, such as CPAP and BiPAP, should be encouraged. When invasive ventilation is used, oxygen levels should be minimized in order to reduce the risk of damaging healthy tissue.


https://science.slashdot.org/story/...ovid-19-patients-on-invasive-ventilators

Now that we have more studies on Chloroquine, we're finding that rather than helping, it seems to actually lead to worse outcomes when using it frown


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2767335
04/23/20 09:25 AM
04/23/20 09:25 AM
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North East USA
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Here's another reason we all need to work to flatten the curve. The longer we can push this out, the more data we get on how to best treat it.

Quote
Unlike with other forms of pneumonia, they found that COVID-19 patients were unusually damaged by invasive ventilation but also able to tolerate higher levels of anoxia -- to the point that one doctor recalls having to tell patients to get off their cellphones so that they could be intubated. The recommendation is that guidelines be adjusted to discourage invasive ventilation unless a patient is physically struggling to breathe, rather than relying strictly on oxygen levels; otherwise, the use of non-invasive ventilation, such as CPAP and BiPAP, should be encouraged. When invasive ventilation is used, oxygen levels should be minimized in order to reduce the risk of damaging healthy tissue.


https://science.slashdot.org/story/...ovid-19-patients-on-invasive-ventilators

Now that we have more studies on Chloroquine, we're finding that rather than helping, it seems to actually lead to worse outcomes when using it frown


Is anyone surprised that some treatments sworn to work by YouTube "scientists" and promoted by non-scientists actually doesn't work?

I have a number of friends and associates who discount the VA's findings. Though they are more anecdotal versus a true double blind study, they were at least not using feelings as their basis for this treatment.

TY
K

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767395
04/23/20 12:13 PM
04/23/20 12:13 PM
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Actual VA study numbers:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-hydroxychloroquine-ventilator-covid-.html

Sample quote

Joseph Magagnoli, from the Columbia VA Health Care System in South Carolina, and colleagues performed a retrospective analysis of data from 368 patients hospitalized with confirmed severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infection: 97 treated with HC, 113 with HC+AZ, and 158 with no HC.

The researchers found that the rates of death were 27.8, 22.1, and 11.4 percent, respectively, in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups.

The rates of ventilation were 13.3, 6.9, and 14.1 percent in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups, respectively.

The risk for death from any cause was higher in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio [aHR], 2.61; 95 percent confidence interval [CI], 1.10 to 6.17; P = 0.03),
but not in the HC+AZ group (aHR, 1.14; 95 percent CI, 0.56 to 2.32; P = 0.72)
compared with the no HC group.

Compared with the no HC group,
the risk for ventilation was similar in the HC group (aHR, 1.43; 95 percent CI, 0.53 to 3.79; P = 0.48)
and in the HC+AZ group (aHR, 0.43; 95 percent CI, 0.16 to 1.12; P = 0.09).

End quote

My reading of it is that the key finding is that the combo of HC+AZ reduces death from any cause by 14%
but a P value of 0.72 is less than dead certain.

As I related in a previous post, I attempted to buy Chloroquine Phosphate tablets (not Hydroxycholorquine) and was quoted a price of $501 for 30 pills, but cancelled my order when the Costco pharmacist said the wholesale warehouse could give no delivery date. I guess that was good luck and $500 saved.

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767396
04/23/20 12:17 PM
04/23/20 12:17 PM
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Dutch report that patients who already were infected with bacteria, die at much higher rates when a second virus infection with COVID-19 occurs:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-covid-deaths.html

Sample quote

Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome in patients with COVID-19 can lead to death but more than 50% of these cases are associated with co-infection with bacterial pathogens.
Snip
Patients with pre-existing respiratory disease, which often includes an elevated presence of bacteria in the nose, throat and lungs, are among those with the highest COVID-19 death rates," says Dr. Eijkelkamp, a lecturer in microbiology.

End quote

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767408
04/23/20 12:31 PM
04/23/20 12:31 PM
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500,000 person study in Norway reports filtered Coffee reduces deaths from any cause by 15%

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-healthiest-coffee-science.html

I wonder if any of the 200+ chemicals in Coffee have either good/bad effect on recovering from coronaviruses?

Can new or used coffee filters be made into effective masks?

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767435
04/23/20 01:33 PM
04/23/20 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 360view
Dutch report that patients who already were infected with bacteria, die at much higher rates when a second virus infection with COVID-19 occurs:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-covid-deaths.html

Sample quote

Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome in patients with COVID-19 can lead to death but more than 50% of these cases are associated with co-infection with bacterial pathogens.
Snip
Patients with pre-existing respiratory disease, which often includes an elevated presence of bacteria in the nose, throat and lungs, are among those with the highest COVID-19 death rates," says Dr. Eijkelkamp, a lecturer in microbiology.

End quote

And this is why I got a flu shot and a high dose pneumonia vaccine. I knew I didn't any other conditions at this time.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


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Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767436
04/23/20 01:34 PM
04/23/20 01:34 PM
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After suggestions of compressed salt door knobs,
it keeps getting weirder.

Now the French say they are going to do a clinical trial on whether wearing a Nicotine patch can reduce getting COVID-19.....

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-france-nicotine-coronavirus.html

Sample quote

The theory is that nicotine could adhere to cell receptors, therefore blocking the virus from entering cells and spreading in the body, according to renown neurobiologist Jean-Pierre Changeux from France's Pasteur Institut who also co-authored the study.

End quote

Well, no one doubts that Nicotine is a powerful drug.

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767456
04/23/20 02:18 PM
04/23/20 02:18 PM
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Oregon
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Quote
AS COVID-19 has spread around the world, people have become grimly familiar with the death tolls that their governments publish each day. These numbers give a better indication of a country’s trajectory than do counts of confirmed cases, which largely measure how many people have been tested. Nonetheless, official covid-19 death tolls still under-count the true number of fatalities that the disease has already caused at that point.

In many places, official daily figures exclude anybody who did not die in hospital or who did not test positive. Often the cause of death takes several days to establish, which creates a lag in the data. And even the most complete covid-19 records will not count people who were killed by other conditions that probably would have been treated successfully, had hospitals not been overwhelmed by a surge of patients needing intensive care.
...
That discrepancy will surely be greater in poorer countries, which have less capacity for testing and treating patients. For example, data about burials in Jakarta, Indonesia’s capital, suggest that the official covid-19 figures in March might have captured only 5% of the true toll.


https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2767464
04/23/20 02:48 PM
04/23/20 02:48 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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They are saying the virus is causing blood clotting and that the small clots are setting in the lungs and slowing the oxygen flow

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2767483
04/23/20 03:35 PM
04/23/20 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Quote
AS COVID-19 has spread around the world, people have become grimly familiar with the death tolls that their governments publish each day. These numbers give a better indication of a country’s trajectory than do counts of confirmed cases, which largely measure how many people have been tested. Nonetheless, official covid-19 death tolls still under-count the true number of fatalities that the disease has already caused at that point.

-----------

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

They should be posting Hospitalization numbers and deaths... to show severity as opposed to positive tests... that may have little to no symptoms.

There is a good reason people question the hype that came out of the Gov of NY mouth as he screamed the hospitals would be overwhelmed. They were already dealing with one of the worst flu years in recent memory and handling the higher hospitalizations without complaining throughout Jan & Feb. Reclassifying nearly all Flu & Pneumonia deaths as Covid-19 does not help there case with the public... as anyone that looks at the numbers is left scratching there head.

Below I pulled 2 charts... the 1st from the link above & the 2nd is From NY State Health tracking site.
Note that in the 1st Chart NYC is claiming that from March 14th to April 3rd 98% of deaths were Covid related. That flies in the face of YEARS of Flu&Pneumonia data... Especially when we were already in the midst of a record setting flu season for people aged 0-49yrs.

The second chart shows NY Flu & Pneumonia Hospitalizations (Chart says cases at top, but page says it's those that ended up in the hospital for any amount of time) Note how high the hospitalization rate was this year... higher than the record setting season 2 years ago (that no one knew about) The section highlighted in Yellow starts on March 1st when NYC reported it's 1st covid case(Not death... just a positive test)... Also clearly obvious is when NY decided to start reporting nearly ALL Flu & Pneumonia cases as "Covid-19".... You can see how clearly unrealistic that is by just looking at the columns to the LEFT.... Anyone really believe that in the middle of a high year the Flu virtually VANISHED on March 21st???? You're realcrazy if you do.

The chart pretty much shows that the hospitals weren't much fuller than they were with flu patients just a few weeks prior, which they handled. I'm not saying Covid-19 is no big deal... Clearly it is for old people & those already sick... I'm just pointing out how the official numbers are being played with... and using NY as an example... since their Gov was crying the loudest about it.

NYC Covid Deaths.pngNYC Hospitalizations FLU.png
Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: Runner2go] #2767492
04/23/20 03:59 PM
04/23/20 03:59 PM
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Perhaps some of that was due to not testing prior deaths. And as has been known the actual cause of death may not have actually been known for days or weeks later due to a testing back log. I'm not defending NY, but there could be some legitimate reasons for the jump in numbers.
I'm also not saying there isn't some hysteria by the media, we've seen that on full display for the past three years.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


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Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: 360view] #2767513
04/23/20 04:57 PM
04/23/20 04:57 PM
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US Military Fort Detrick medical lab is ramping up testing of their anti-viral drug made from the Oleander plant

https://justthenews.com/politics-po...odefense-lab-hold-key-future-coronavirus

Sample quote

Dr. John Dye, chief of viral immunology at the USAMRIID lab at Fort Detrick, confirmed to Just the News that his team began testing the extract known as oleandrin a few years ago and found it was effective in fighting the Ebola and Marburg viruses. The Army lab is now ramping up a rapid plan to test oleandrin against COVID-19.

“We found that at non-toxic concentrations, oleandrin was efficacious at slowing and halting viral growth in tissue culture assays” for the Ebola and Marburg viruses, Dye said in emailed answers to questions.

Because those viruses are enveloped, just like COVID-19, the lab is pressing ahead to do similar tests on the theory that the extract may have similar effects on the coronavirus at the center of today’s pandemic, he said.
Snip

Andrew Whitney, executive chairman of Phoenix Biotechnology, told Just the News he is excited that Dye’s lab is beginning testing against the coronavirus and said a separate lab has already done extensive testing in recent weeks and preliminarily found oleandrin is effective against COVID-19.

“One leading U.S. institution has already reported remarkable efficacy of our compound against COVID-19, having completed multiple lab studies over the past month. We will soon make the details of that public,” he said.

End quote

Last edited by 360view; 04/23/20 06:25 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2767514
04/23/20 04:58 PM
04/23/20 04:58 PM
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jersey shore
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jersey shore
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
Originally Posted by Jjs72D
I may not be reading all of your posts right but you seem to thrive on the bad news and not the good.


Aren't you the guy saying the pandemic is a plandemic?


I did and got called a moron for saying it

It was carefully planned by the The Powers That Be (Soros/Gates/Xi/Big Pharma/ etc.)
1. Release the virus in China from the lab and pretend it came from a wet market
2. Keep international flights to/from Wuhan open, close down national flights
3. Media, CDC, China, WHO to all downplay virus in the beginning so that it could spread widely, including the bald faced lie that it does not transmit human to human.
4. Media, CDC and WHO to then exaggerate with wild guesses (millions will die!!!) to force governments to close the economy as the only “solution”.
5. CDC and others to count 86 year old cancer patient in hospices as virus deaths
6. Attack, belittle actual cheap, safe and effective cure (Hydroxychloroquine).
7. Completely ignore that people with strong immune system have ZERO symptoms, under no circumstance allow natural solutions that strengthen immune system (Facebook bans links vitamin C infusions).
8. Push the narrative (CDC, media, etc.) that it will go on forever and the ONLY solution is a completely untested vaccines, even though flu vaccines have maybe 30-70% effectiveness.
The likelihood that all of the above happened by accident is 1 in a trillion. You have a better chance of winning the lottery 100 times in a row.

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: flypaper] #2767516
04/23/20 05:02 PM
04/23/20 05:02 PM
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jersey shore
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flypaper Offline
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jersey shore
I will leave this here for people with critical thinking skills
the rest can stay home all afraid up
don't forget the worthless mask..


There are few high-traffic businesses more densely populated than grocery stores. In fact, within the U.S. economy retail supermarkets have the highest foot traffic of any business sector in the entire economy; that’s just an empirical fact…. and the coronavirus impact increased that foot traffic by an average of 40 percent. Now, stop and think about this logically & apply a large dose of common sense. Think about human-to-human interface.

♦First, with approximately 90 percent of the total U.S. population penetrating through grocery outlets; and with 100% of that massive number of consumers going through checkout lanes; if the COVID-19 viral strain was as significant as claimed by the worst-case data, then supermarket cashiers would have been the highest exposed profession of U.S. workers in the entire nation. There wouldn’t even be a close second place.
Considering that metric; and considering the overall population penetration & density within the business operation; there has not been an employee-based business disruption due to the coronavirus. Put another way: the coronavirus has not stopped the function of the highest human interface occupation in the entire U.S. economy.

♦Secondly, think about the businesses that are closed; perhaps think about your job that may have been shut down…. now frame your risk based on the supermarket example as highest human interface and highest population penetration in any business field.
If the #1 at risk industry has operated, essentially without disruption and with almost zero substantive mitigation, while carrying the largest population exposure rate, then all other less-exposed business operations would have significantly less operational risk.
Why would anyone be concerned about opening their business?
If you take the factual outcome of the retail food industry as a measure, it would follow that other than a few proximity businesses which may need prudent modifications or remain temporarily closed (ex. modified airplane seating, concerts, stadiums or capacity seating venues etc), then all other businesses should immediately resume operations.

No other business segment within the economy is as exposed to the population as the retail food business; and yet supermarkets operated without issue.
So why shouldn’t all businesses immediately get back to work?
Perhaps a few initial modifications might be needed; but not much, and not for long.
Think about it….

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: flypaper] #2767521
04/23/20 05:11 PM
04/23/20 05:11 PM
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Think about the fact that these grocery stores, for the most part, took action to keep from spreading this virus quite soon after it was found to be necessary. Disinfecting and keeping the personal protected so they wouldn't be infected. Even then they weren't without issue as you say.

Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: stumpy] #2767522
04/23/20 05:13 PM
04/23/20 05:13 PM
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jersey shore
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[quote=stumpy]Think about the fact that these grocery stores, for the most part, took action to keep from spreading this virus quite soon after it was found to be necessary. Disinfecting and keeping the personal protected so they wouldn't be infected. Even then they weren't without issue as you say. [/quote}

do you have any FACTS to dispute this claim???

If the #1 at risk industry has operated, essentially without disruption and with almost zero substantive mitigation, while carrying the largest population exposure rate



they all managed to stay OPEN
can you name a SINGLE store that closed????
let me know when you find JUST ONE popcorn


Last edited by flypaper; 04/23/20 05:24 PM.
Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: flypaper] #2767528
04/23/20 05:19 PM
04/23/20 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flypaper
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
[quote=Jjs72D]I may not be reading all of your posts right but you seem to thrive on the bad news and not the good.


Aren't you the guy saying the pandemic is a plandemic?


Originally Posted by flypaper
I did and got called a moron for saying it

It was carefully planned by the The Powers That Be (Soros/Gates/Xi/Big Pharma/ etc.)


One would first have to suspend all rational thought to believe this very first statement. Additionally no one has yet told us exactly what the end game is here.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


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Re: The official Coronavirus thread [Re: Guitar Jones] #2767531
04/23/20 05:22 PM
04/23/20 05:22 PM
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jersey shore
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jersey shore
Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
Originally Posted by flypaper
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
[quote=Jjs72D]I may not be reading all of your posts right but you seem to thrive on the bad news and not the good.


Aren't you the guy saying the pandemic is a plandemic?


I did and got called a moron for saying it

It was carefully planned by the The Powers That Be (Soros/Gates/Xi/Big Pharma/ etc.)]/quote]

One would first have to suspend all rational thought to believe this very first statement. Additionally no one has yet told us exactly what the end game is here.


really?
you think it came from some Bat fried rice???

have any good links?
besides China propaganda??
Bill Gates owns the Obama funded Wuhan lab.. FACT
I can also tell you the end game...

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