Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: lewtot184]
#2767453
04/23/20 02:11 PM
04/23/20 02:11 PM
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lewtot184
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ok, I just ran some numbers. going from .022" to .033" increased the area 225%, that's a lot. so going from .066" to .069" is about 9.5%. so maybe a 9.5% correction isn't bad at the IAB. i'd still look at stuff like leaky power valve (fluttering), float level/fuel pressure vs small needle and seats. i'm done; good luck!
ok, I thought I was done. the 225% is high (I think). the .022" jet is 44% of the .033" jet, so maybe about 150% change. still a lot and further than I have gone.
Last edited by lewtot184; 04/23/20 02:23 PM.
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2767455
04/23/20 02:17 PM
04/23/20 02:17 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Obviously iiwii....... and if it’s working good that’s really all that matters........ but it seems really odd to me that adding 003” to a .066 hole(+.0003197sq/in)in an idle air bleed would change the idle speed by 300rpm.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2767479
04/23/20 03:26 PM
04/23/20 03:26 PM
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varunner
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The rise in rpm surprised me too. Hey, I'm at a loss in explaining any of this stuff, just reporting what I'm seeing. Obviously iiwii....... and if it’s working good that’s really all that matters........ but it seems really odd to me that adding 003” to a .066 hole(+.0003197sq/in)in an idle air bleed would change the idle speed by 300rpm.
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: lewtot184]
#2767482
04/23/20 03:35 PM
04/23/20 03:35 PM
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The .033" is really a shot in the dark. But you know once I think about it, did I just only change how much the mixture screws are screwed out ? I started at .022/.066 with screws at 2 turns out. Now at .033/.069 at 1.25 turns out ? Surely there's more to it than that, can't be that simple.......... ok, I just ran some numbers. going from .022" to .033" increased the area 225%, that's a lot. so going from .066" to .069" is about 9.5%. so maybe a 9.5% correction isn't bad at the IAB. i'd still look at stuff like leaky power valve (fluttering), float level/fuel pressure vs small needle and seats. i'm done; good luck!
ok, I thought I was done. the 225% is high (I think). the .022" jet is 44% of the .033" jet, so maybe about 150% change. still a lot and further than I have gone.
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2767488
04/23/20 03:49 PM
04/23/20 03:49 PM
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lewtot184
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The .033" is really a shot in the dark. But you know once I think about it, did I just only change how much the mixture screws are screwed out ? I started at .022/.066 with screws at 2 turns out. Now at .033/.069 at 1.25 turns out ? Surely there's more to it than that, can't be that simple.......... ok, I just ran some numbers. going from .022" to .033" increased the area 225%, that's a lot. so going from .066" to .069" is about 9.5%. so maybe a 9.5% correction isn't bad at the IAB. i'd still look at stuff like leaky power valve (fluttering), float level/fuel pressure vs small needle and seats. i'm done; good luck!
ok, I thought I was done. the 225% is high (I think). the .022" jet is 44% of the .033" jet, so maybe about 150% change. still a lot and further than I have gone. as fuel volume increases (more jet area) then more control may be needed (mixture screws). the mixture screws are like a faucet; they control volume. you did a very noticeable volume increase.
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2767490
04/23/20 03:54 PM
04/23/20 03:54 PM
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fast68plymouth
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You’re right..... it’s not that simple.
The air bleed/ifr relationship determines the A/F ratio mix of the circuit.
The mixture screws adjust the volume of that mix to the discharge ports.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2767515
04/23/20 04:59 PM
04/23/20 04:59 PM
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varunner
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No ? kinda does sound that simple to me. To change the ratio, I have to increase the quantity of fuel, which I did with the bigger jet. To compensate I ended up closing the mixture screw which reduced the fuel and air. Same amount fuel in both cases. Of course I"m generalizing here, but on a course level that what it seems to be. But you guys are the experts, I'm just trying to learn. thanks again. You’re right..... it’s not that simple.
The air bleed/ifr relationship determines the A/F ratio mix of the circuit.
The mixture screws adjust the volume of that mix to the discharge ports.
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2767517
04/23/20 05:03 PM
04/23/20 05:03 PM
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fast68plymouth
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If you say so.
Does it idle in gear better than before?
If so...... then it’s not really the same...... is it?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2767578
04/23/20 06:43 PM
04/23/20 06:43 PM
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I don't know Dwayne. Idle quality is pretty subjective. But since I've been working on it, it must be better In all seriousness, I'm not sure I accomplished much in how the engine runs at idle, but I've learned a little. If you say so.
Does it idle in gear better than before?
If so...... then it’s not really the same...... is it?
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2767582
04/23/20 07:01 PM
04/23/20 07:01 PM
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fast68plymouth
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The way I look at it is this......
It’s a race car. It doesn’t have to have the drivability of a Camry. At the same time, having to do a bunch of fancy foot work with the brake and gas pedals isn’t acceptable to me either, or having it try and die after the burn out.
If it starts good, idles reasonably well in gear, doesn’t try and die after the burnout, and requires a minimal amount of two footing while driving around in the pits...... in my mind, for that application....... it’s fine.
When it was a race car with a rowdy cam, I’d never leave my car idling in gear for any length of time. I’d click it into neutral and let it bounce happily along at 11-1200.
Only during the times when it had pretty mild cams in it did I ever leave it idling in gear at stoplights, etc.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2767775
04/24/20 09:18 AM
04/24/20 09:18 AM
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fast68plymouth
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I imagine with a .022” ifr it would have been a little finickier than I would have lived with.
I would have probably tweaked it too.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: varunner]
#2768043
04/25/20 10:17 AM
04/25/20 10:17 AM
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fast68plymouth
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I don’t know how your particular carb is set up, but the one in the link, that i posted the pics of the baseplate of....... that carb doesn’t have the constant idle discharge ports.
The guy working on the one in the second link didn’t have pics, but commented how his carb didn’t have them either.
Also, the FSM diagram of the secondary idle circuit air bleed system doesn’t coincide with how it’s described to be routed in the first link. Instead of being directed into the secondary metering plate, it goes straight to the bottom, into the baseplate....... and the author of the thread describes and has pics of how he re-routed that part of the circuit.
Are they all like that? Who knows.
You have two of those carbs, right? Maybe you could see if yours is like the one in the FSM, of the one in the link.
As seen here...... no constant idle discharge port:
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2768050
04/25/20 10:41 AM
04/25/20 10:41 AM
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fast68plymouth
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Here’s an old 3310 baseplate....... it has the constant idle discharge ports:
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: lewtot184]
#2768085
04/25/20 11:42 AM
04/25/20 11:42 AM
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fast68plymouth
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That’s what I was saying earlier. If the carb being used here doesn’t have the constant idle discharge ports...... I’d be adding them, along with whatever mods to the main body were necessary to facilitate the proper function of one of the aftermarket metering plates that can utilize std jets(like a QFT 34-2).
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Where is IFR in this metering block
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2768149
04/25/20 02:49 PM
04/25/20 02:49 PM
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I have the QFT plate in it now. It's idle well matches up the hole in the body. I'm thinking the slot that is fed by it is really functioning as a transfer slot since it's covered up at idle. Not sure about that though.... That’s what I was saying earlier. If the carb being used here doesn’t have the constant idle discharge ports...... I’d be adding them, along with whatever mods to the main body were necessary to facilitate the proper function of one of the aftermarket metering plates that can utilize std jets(like a QFT 34-2).
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