Compression test on a 440
#2766547
04/20/20 11:57 PM
04/20/20 11:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232 Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster
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Engine was built at a re builders by the previous owner. It has a little piston slap when cold but I was told by a few people that its not abnormal with speed pro pistons.
With the PCV valve out it does have some blow by, not enough to cause any leaks or major issues but enough I'm not happy. Power seems to be marginal to me as well, I expected a bit more for the butt dyno from a 440.
Engine specs: 440 with edelbrock performer rpm heads, rpm air gap intake, TTI headers, Hughes cam 2832BL, .030 H143 CP hypereutectic pistons, firecore distributor. 3310 Holley carb.
Car runs well but pig rich at idle and has decided to ping randomly at WOT. No intake leaks I can find, doesn't seem to use any oil either. Same fuel I've always used, best available is 91 octane or 94 with ethanol. So I ran a compression test tonight, all plugs out, full charge on the battery and carb wide open. Had to due it cold or I'd have 3rd degree burns from the headers.
All holes where dry
1: 175psi 2: 190psi 3: 180 psi 4: 190psi 5: 160psi 6: 200psi 7: 150 psi 8: 200psi
Going to try a bit of oil in # 7 &5 and see what it shows tomorrow. 200 psi seems a little high doesn't it? Wondering if I have some major carbon build up or valve/cam issues? Going to look inside with a borescope as well to see how things look. The plugs are really black so I though my valley pan could also be sucking oil and be the cause for my sudden and random pinging issue.
Opinions?
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: PossessedDuster]
#2766550
04/21/20 12:15 AM
04/21/20 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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The cam sound decent but the one cyl is low.. I assume it has a slight stall for the conv with some want of a gear in it.. try the oil but you might try pouring some water in the carb to steam clean the cambers(if you dont understand that you can ask)
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/21/20 12:17 AM.
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2766553
04/21/20 12:33 AM
04/21/20 12:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159 CT
GTX MATT
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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What is the distributor curve and what spring is in the secondary.
Those numbers aren't horrible themselves but something is up with one at 150 and one at 160 with some at 200. Did you max out the gauge for each or try to do a set # of "cranks?"
If you have adjustable rockers you can start by double checking valve adjustment. From there its leak down, if that is good then check the cam lobes.
If you're sucking much oil your plug threads will likely be wet.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: Clanton]
#2766671
04/21/20 11:49 AM
04/21/20 11:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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I have a 440 that runs about 200psi. Compression check numbers are Highly dependent on the cam’s intake closing degree. Early will produce BIG numbers.
I agree with others about cleaning the engine (water, sea foam, etc) then a retest. I’ve seen some pretty significant shifts in the numbers after doing that. But in the big picture I wouldnt let those numbers themselves to cause me to do anything to the motor if it’s not consuming oil, other than the aforementioned cleaning. Those numbers aren’t costing you any big amount of power....at all. Have you playing with the timing for the pinging issue?
Last edited by Pacnorthcuda; 04/21/20 12:50 PM.
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: PossessedDuster]
#2766880
04/21/20 07:41 PM
04/21/20 07:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Which side did you test first?
As mentioned, the drivers side numbers are lower. I’m wondering if there was some lifter bleed down affecting the numbers on the passenger side(lifters bleeding down and raising the cranking pressures).
I’d get it running again...... test # 6 first, then # 7...... see if the numbers repeat.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: PossessedDuster]
#2766884
04/21/20 07:44 PM
04/21/20 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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To steam clean it just bring up the revs a couple thousand and slowly pour in a can of water.. play with the revs to keep it running while doing this.. I do this with a beer.. it seems to work better and I can have one while doing it
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: PossessedDuster]
#2766963
04/21/20 11:17 PM
04/21/20 11:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/21/20 11:18 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2766967
04/21/20 11:47 PM
04/21/20 11:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232 Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster
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Alberta Canada
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All the plugs are equally black none any shiner then the others. I initially thought a valley pan sucking oil as well but with all the cylinders being as black/sooty looking as they are I'm think its not the case.
I did the driver's side first, I would have tried it hot as well but the headers would give me 3rd degree burns trying to pull the plugs.
I think your right about the lifters being pumped up after I did the drivers side and why the passenger side looks better by the numbers. I'll try it again tomorrow after rotating it over and getting oil pressure up first.
Also there was a question about the spring in the carb secondary. It currently has a quick fuel adjustable secondary set up installed. I always thought it was better on its jetting as when started up cold it spits water/condensation from the tail pipes pretty good.
I remember my dad telling me stories about an old mechanic telling him how to clean his carboned flathead ford with a thermos of boiling hot water and borax down the carb when running. Not sure I want to try borax but I'm game for a steam clean or just some cleaner.
Last edited by PossessedDuster; 04/21/20 11:49 PM.
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: PossessedDuster]
#2766987
04/22/20 02:51 AM
04/22/20 02:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Bend,OR USA
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Maybe in Canada winters boiling water would work oaky, anywhere else above freezing I would and do use cold tap water and let the motor get up to normal operating temps before letting that water dribble in the top of the carb at or above 1500 to 2500 RPM so it will get mix in with the air and fuel and not drown the spark plugs out and cool down the combustion chambers to much steam at once also I was around cars a little in the late 1950s when flathead where still being used and hot rodded and the pump gas wasn't that much of a worry in those motors unless they had been hopped up a bunch I think the lead additives where being introduced and use in the late 1950 as the horsepower wars where being started, that cause the increase in octane and the increase price of gasoline. I remember pump "high test" being .19 cents a gallon and regular gas costing 16 or 17 cents a gallon depending on which brand gas you bought, that was in Blythe, SO CA in 1959 and 1960 It sounds like you need to lean down the carb idle mixture and part throttle cruise mixture or maybe use a hooter spark plug range or maybe both
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/22/20 02:53 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Compression test on a 440
[Re: PossessedDuster]
#2767109
04/22/20 02:01 PM
04/22/20 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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Nowadays, with many “normal” style hyd lifters being used with a HP cam and the associated spring loads that go with it ...... when you’re adjusting lifter preload with the motor hot ...... it’s not at all uncommon to bump the motor over to put a valve at full lift ....... and if you just keep an eye on that valve, you can watch the spring load start to collapse the lifter.
Anything less than fully pumped up will affect the number(make the number higher) you see on the compression tester.
Depending on exactly how much the lifters bleed off during the cycling of the valves opening and closing during the test can give you erroneous info, in terms of knowing what the “running” compression would be when the lifters are operating with full oil pressure.
Be an interesting test, especially if one were using some of the variable duration style(fast bleed) lifters.
Test a few cylinders after the motor has sat for a while........ then pull the oil pump drive gear, and use a priming tool while retesting those same cylinders........ see how the numbers compare.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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