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Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. #2765721
04/18/20 11:40 PM
04/18/20 11:40 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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Working on a 78 360 Ramcharger with an A727. Had a massive leak. Split the trans and removed torque converter which had a badly worn snout. I replaced the converter, removed pump and changed bushing and re-installed everything. Other than the leak, the trans worked prior to starting the job.

After many hours re-assembling, i finally fired it up and topped it off, went through the gears to get the fluid everywhere. No leaks but now it only engages 1 and a Reverse. 2nd and Drive have a whirring noise but are not engaging. Seems like 1st and reverse are bound up too. With the wheels off the ground the wheels do not freely spin in either R or 1st.

Also, in park, the wheels do not set/lock as expected and still spin.

Any help or guidance would sure be appreciated. It has been a less than stellar day.......

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 70mopes] #2765727
04/19/20 12:09 AM
04/19/20 12:09 AM
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All I know is that parts all should match, meaning if a 4x4 it should NOT have any lock up converter parts back then. A friend mistakenly got a remaned pump housing which differed for lock up trans.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: buildanother] #2765749
04/19/20 04:48 AM
04/19/20 04:48 AM
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ruderunner Online content
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No park? Is the transfer case in neutral?


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Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: ruderunner] #2765818
04/19/20 09:46 AM
04/19/20 09:46 AM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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It is the correct non lock up converter. I did check the transfer case to make sure it is in gear.

In first and reverse the drive tran appears to labor and doesn't spin very free with wheels off ground

I get a nasty 'gnashing' noise when going into park and the rear wheels do not lock once in park.

I get first and reverse (manual first) only. No drive or second

I did not prime the converter but it took fluid at startup and trans was subsequently topped off.

There is a light whirring noise when in 2nd or Drive.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 70mopes] #2765855
04/19/20 10:46 AM
04/19/20 10:46 AM
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Pull the pan and check the rod from the valve body to the pawl. Park is mechanical.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 70mopes] #2765861
04/19/20 11:05 AM
04/19/20 11:05 AM
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Shifter way out of adjustment


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: GomangoCuda] #2765864
04/19/20 11:26 AM
04/19/20 11:26 AM
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Get the car on stands then disconnect shifter rod/cable from lever on trans. Moved kever all the way back while turning the driveshaft.
If the driveshaft locks then the park rod is in the right spot. Place your shifter in park and adjust the length if needed for the shift rod to engage that lever.

Now try it.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: A727Tflite] #2765904
04/19/20 12:26 PM
04/19/20 12:26 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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I had done that last night. Put the wheels up with rear driveshaft on and front driveshaft off. moved shift arm to park and nothing.... other than the ratcheting noise that occurs.

I tightened the kickdown band before pulling front oil pump and then re-adjusted it prior to firing it up.

It took 6 quarts... about what I lost during the job. Never took off pan or touched anything other than front pump (to replace seal and bushing) and kickdown band adjust. I installed the converter but did not prime it.

upon firing it up and going through the gears I noticed that manual first and Reverse were engaging fine.... although they seem bound.

Manual 1st uses rear clutch and rear band
Reverse uses front clutch and rear band.

It seems that there could be a problem in the kickdown band? It uses rear clutch (which functions for manual 1st) and the kickdown band... which, other than the oil pump, is the only other component I worked on.

I am stumped on which direction to go as it is a bear taking the converter out. frustration level high about now..... ughhhh.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 70mopes] #2765927
04/19/20 12:59 PM
04/19/20 12:59 PM
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It is possible that the clutch drums slid forward and when you installed the pump you damaged the clutch pack discs.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: NITROUSN] #2765954
04/19/20 01:38 PM
04/19/20 01:38 PM
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don't forget that you must use the brakes to stop the wheels from spinning before you try to engage park when the rear wheels are off the ground.
if you don't, grinding WILL occur.
beer

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 70mopes] #2766001
04/19/20 03:59 PM
04/19/20 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 70mopes
I tightened the kickdown band before pulling front oil pump and then re-adjusted it prior to firing it up.

.... Never took off pan or touched anything other than front pump (to replace seal and bushing) and kickdown band adjust.
I am thinking that since you didn't pull the pan, the only things I can think of are:
1) Front drum with clutch pack not engaged correctly when reassembled (as somebody mentioned). But typically cannot get things back together if this happened.
2) The rings on the support or input shaft were damaged when reassembled. Leaking fluid passages to wrong places.

Reaction_shaft_supports2.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 440Jim] #2766011
04/19/20 04:26 PM
04/19/20 04:26 PM
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Sorry, I read your first post that you did a complete when all you did was pull the pump.

So, for the ratcheting - sounds like you still have something wrong with the shifter.
Move the lever all the way forward, then count how many detents you need to get to park. 1,2,D,N,R,P = 5.
You need to address that first. Until a shifter is properly adjusted you should never do any diagnosis or repair.

If you installed the pump with the front band tight you likely damaged the input shaft seal/s.
Like 440Jim mentioned, you may have had the front drum move forward when you pulled the pump then when installing the pump you crowded the first clutch disc and bend the teeth.

If you damaged the large reaction shaft seals you shouldn’t have a strong reverse.

Last edited by Transman; 04/19/20 06:47 PM.
Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: A727Tflite] #2766062
04/19/20 07:13 PM
04/19/20 07:13 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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Thanks all. walking away last night was probably a good call on my part. I knew I had done everything correctly and was racking my brain as to what could have happened.

Turns out the "whirring noise (and ratcheting) was coming from the transfer case. I was in HI range on the NP203. No front drive shaft. It was in that state that the conditions existed. When I went to HI LOC everything worked and after installing front driveshaft and exercising the xfer case, everything fell into place.

Trans works great. No leaks. What a relief.

Appreciate all the feedback fellas.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: 70mopes] #2766082
04/19/20 08:03 PM
04/19/20 08:03 PM
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You still should of had park . Either way at least it works.

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: NITROUSN] #2766272
04/20/20 12:04 PM
04/20/20 12:04 PM
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glad the problem was solved ! up
beer

Re: Torqueflite dilemma - Need Trans pros. [Re: moparx] #2766354
04/20/20 03:22 PM
04/20/20 03:22 PM
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I was going to say - if it grinds the park pawl going into park, the output shaft is turning. If the output shaft is turning and the drive shaft is not, the issue is between those two. Sounds like you found that out.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.






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