new distributor
#2760921
04/06/20 10:06 PM
04/06/20 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Posts: 781
wine country
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Hey, I am looking for a new distributor for my 383, med aggressive cam, aluminum heads, etc... I have been running a locked out 440 source distributor but am thinking i need something that can fluctuate the timing a bit (I borrowed this from my race car.) I am looking at the hyper spark distributor from holley. https://www.holley.com/products/fue...er_efi/hyperspark_ignition/parts/565-305The plan is to upgrade to sniper efi in a few months assuming things settle down..... this distributor will give me timing control with the sniper. However i do not have the sniper currently and want to know if this distributor will work with a MSD 6al setup for now, does anyone know?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2760941
04/06/20 11:20 PM
04/06/20 11:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
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I'm still running a Firecore distributor with an MSD 6AL and it works very well with my engine. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2760954
04/07/20 12:07 AM
04/07/20 12:07 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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okay, thank you very much for the info.
I am just trying not to buy 2 distributors. The one i have now either starts the car great but has no top end, or has great top but won't start for sh!t. also it seems to run the exhaust very hot, im thinking this is too late of timing causing more to burn in the exhaust than it should. anybody have a good timing recommendation for a mild 383? You need to get the distributor AND the box on a distributor machine and set the curve and account for the retard in the box. Once you fix the curve, what you have will work.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: new distributor
[Re: madscientist]
#2760970
04/07/20 01:01 AM
04/07/20 01:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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okay, thank you very much for the info.
I am just trying not to buy 2 distributors. The one i have now either starts the car great but has no top end, or has great top but won't start for sh!t. also it seems to run the exhaust very hot, im thinking this is too late of timing causing more to burn in the exhaust than it should. anybody have a good timing recommendation for a mild 383? You need to get the distributor AND the box on a distributor machine and set the curve and account for the retard in the box. Once you fix the curve, what you have will work. You nee to check the timing at idle RPM and then check it again at or above 5000 RPM to see what it has at idle and rev up It sounds like your current distributor may have one weight stuck and that is not letting the mechanical advance work properly I like to see from 12 to 16 degrees advance before top dead center at idle and right at 34 to no more than 36 degrees advance before top dead center revved up :twocents Stock Mopar distributor are not hard to fix or modify to make them better for performance use, I do my own and have had really good luck with them, my current S/P car runs n the high 8s at 150+ MPH with one I modified
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2761274
04/07/20 09:42 PM
04/07/20 09:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
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Washington
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okay,
so timing at 15*, 18* no change I see water kinda move through the radiator when the T-stat open but it certainly doesn't rush. I have another water pump sitting on my 540 that isn't running at the moment.
I may steal that and see if the problem gets resolved.
this is my dads car... he said he has had this issue before. he said it always overheated. This is the 3rd radiator and the same pump and housing. aftermarket aluminum, but heck maybe its no good.
Thoughts? High flow water pump High flow thermostat Speed up the water pump. Looks like the water pump pulley is pretty big. The pump should turn faster than the crank.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2761288
04/07/20 10:11 PM
04/07/20 10:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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I bought and used aluminum radiator for my old Duster, it worked fine for the first summer at 160F to 165 F at road speeds above 70 MPH with 4.10 gears and 315x60x15 M/T ET street radials, the next spring it was running above 210 in the spring with the same conditions I called a radiator shop that I trusted and they said bring it in, they must have clean it or something else that made it work fine again for that summer and fall. The next year the same thing, my message is some aluminum radiators must corrode or cake up inside when sitting during the winter up here I use a good brand of antifreeze(good too -40F) and I think I added a water pump lube and rust preventer in with the anti freeze. I did the garden hose test in the top inlet with the radiator cap on and the bottom outlet opened and it flowed all the water my 5/8 garden hose would flow into it at full blast Maybe someone on here knows a good aluminum radiator cleaner to use to flush them out that will help them cool better
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/07/20 10:14 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2761454
04/08/20 11:51 AM
04/08/20 11:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
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if your pusher fan REALLY moves 2000cfm, your problem is there. you need at least 3000+ cfm to even get close to cooling anything for any length of time. most aftermarket fans are FAR from accurate on their CFM ratings. you need a bigger fan, one that draws lots of amps, to stay cool. and since yours is a pusher, [pullers are WAY more efficient] it needs to be bigger than you think. just my opinion, your results will vary.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2761679
04/08/20 07:58 PM
04/08/20 07:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
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OP
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Another work day done and no closer to it running cooler.
I swapped the radiator from a top to bottom flow to cross flow style, the top to bottom is 3- 5/8" tubes inside, and the cross flow is 2- 1" cores.
I added a spal fan that flows a unreal amount of air... i can feel it pulling air from a 14"-16" in front of the radiator.
i turned the idle up to 1000-1100 and richened the carb. it stinks when idling.
it hits 220 and drop back to 205 and lives in between 210*-220*
What gives????
The top of the radiator (the return) is very hot by the time it makes it way down to the bottom inlet i can hold my hand on the radiator. I have tried multiple gauges, sending units.. they are all very close.
Cam timing be off???? any ideas?
HELP
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/08/20 08:10 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2761681
04/08/20 08:05 PM
04/08/20 08:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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Are these tests being done in the driveway or from driving the car?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2761699
04/08/20 08:43 PM
04/08/20 08:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
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Washington
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What are your pulley diameters..measure them ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The pump MUST turn faster than the crank.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2761715
04/08/20 09:24 PM
04/08/20 09:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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okay just measured the crank pulley its OD is 6.5" the water pump pulley OD 6.7"
uhhhh, that can't be good. That’s bad. Very bad.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2762024
04/09/20 07:26 PM
04/09/20 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
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OP
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Swapped the leaky pan gasket for a new leaky pan gasket Took it for a test drive. Trans works great, shifts well. Holds gears downshifts when asked 2. All good. Still runs at 210*+ Also my exhaust seems to be insanely hot. It's not glowing despite how the picture looks, but it sure has rainbowed... this is back about 2 feet from the rear axle. I'm really starting to think something is seriously wrong with this motor.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2762092
04/09/20 09:37 PM
04/09/20 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You can just pull the valve cover and do it... put the wheel on but you need to find TDC... you can do that in the #1 cyl turn the crank both ways to find TDC if you know what I mean then use the rocker to find the max lift before and after(I use... .050both sided of max lift) then see what you have
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2762865
04/11/20 09:13 PM
04/11/20 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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No.. thats retarded.. the company wanted it installed at 112... the smaller the number is advancing it... the way it is now would be more for a nitrous engine... I would put it in at 108 to no more than 110
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/11/20 09:15 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2762888
04/11/20 10:42 PM
04/11/20 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Not really on either of those issues.. it could reduce some heat.. but on the heat I think you have another issue.. it could be as simple as the pump not turning fast enough.. do you run a shroud on the fan.. are the fan blades just in from the edge of the shroud
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2762890
04/11/20 10:49 PM
04/11/20 10:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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Which lifter, the first one at the front of the driver side or the second one from the front, where you checking the cam timing from?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2762892
04/11/20 11:01 PM
04/11/20 11:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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wine country
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Which lifter, the first one at the front of the driver side or the second one from the front, where you checking the cam timing from? so i actually did it four times... the first time i did the very front cylinder, i quickly realized this was the exhaust valve. I then repeated 3x on the intake valve.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2762894
04/11/20 11:14 PM
04/11/20 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
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Not really on either of those issues.. it could reduce some heat.. but on the heat I think you have another issue.. it could be as simple as the pump not turning fast enough.. do you run a shroud on the fan.. are the fan blades just in from the edge of the shroud this is what i am running at this time.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2762960
04/12/20 10:23 AM
04/12/20 10:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You need to answer a few questions.. you checked the cam.. did you use a solid lifter... your big issue seems to be temp.. did you change any of the pulleys... things dont change if you dont do anything
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2763050
04/12/20 01:40 PM
04/12/20 01:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
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wine country
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You need to use a solid lifter.. on the pulleys 1 to 1 isnt gonna cut it.. you need to get the pump speed up those pulleys are more for racing than the street okay I have made a solid lifter from an old socket. it measures .900 OD. I welded a cap on it and ground it flat. I marked it so i can verify it is not spinning when doing this. Here is my question now Is this advanced on the cam 4*???
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2763078
04/12/20 03:00 PM
04/12/20 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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I've had several timing sets like this one, Cloyes , that the upper cam gear was off a half a tooth, it would ailn straight up and down with any of the crank gear alignments marks. They were all off a half tooth If yours are that way move the cam gear clockwise so the cam dot is to the left of the crank gear looking at it from the front One tooth is right at 12 degrees so if you want use the 0 dot for no additional cam advance The reason being some of those timing stes have two camshaft degrees advance built in a nd some don't Same thing on the cams on built in advance Good luck, you should be able to feel the difference on getting the cam dial in and advanced Let us know how it goes i am now getting 118.5* using that 4* mark on the crank gear. I am going to pull it part and set it to zero and tray again... what the heck?????
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/12/20 03:00 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2763163
04/12/20 07:09 PM
04/12/20 07:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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i pulled it apart set it back at zero. Next question, should my intake valve really be starting to open 30* before TDC? Only if you run baby cams Big cams starting opening @.050 from 40 BTDC to 55 BTDC with no advance The LSA affects the intake and exhaust lobes opening and closing, a cam that is ground on a 112 LSA with 250 @ .050 on both lobes will have the intake opening @ .050 further away from TDC than the same lobes ground on a 108 LSA
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2763580
04/13/20 06:43 PM
04/13/20 06:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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no change. I swapped out the water pump pulley that is 1.25" smaller diameter. i think it is something like a 24% change in water pump rpms. NO FRIGGIN CHANGE. Timing is at 15 BTDC, its a 180* thermostat. Should I go to a 160*? would it help? could it help? HELP
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2763587
04/13/20 06:56 PM
04/13/20 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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no change. I swapped out the water pump pulley that is 1.25" smaller diameter. i think it is something like a 24% change in water pump rpms. NO FRIGGIN CHANGE. Timing is at 15 BTDC, its a 180* thermostat. Should I go to a 160*? would it help? could it help? HELP IF your moving enough water it should help.. how does it start now.. I am wondering if you have blockage in the block or radiator.. for now pull the stat right out and see what it does.. you could have a blockage in the block or radiator
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2763610
04/13/20 07:23 PM
04/13/20 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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I just use a HHR(chevy) fan and shroud and dont have any problems on my SB street rod... take your stat out and try it
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/13/20 07:26 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2763634
04/13/20 08:20 PM
04/13/20 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667 IL
Dart451
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667
IL
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What water pump your running? I had bad luck with a 440 source high volume one.
Last edited by Dart451; 04/13/20 08:25 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2763677
04/13/20 10:49 PM
04/13/20 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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I agree with Cab... its time to start testing.. if this pump or the housing has a flaw you need to find it.. we know based on what you said before.. the engine has had 2 pumps on it and that didnt correct the issue... you tried changing the timing around and that didnt correct it.. its had a few radiators...if 440 had a pump or housing issue(I dont know sense I dont do much on 440s) then maybe you need to check it.. as a check and your gauge accuracy with thermocouples or another test item... this should be a start... and ask question before you jump
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Re: new distributor
[Re: mopar dave]
#2763800
04/14/20 11:28 AM
04/14/20 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
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OP
super stock
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wine country
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Here are the 2 water pump housings...
The one with the small amount of orange in the pic is off the 383. it appears to actually be a mopar part... HMMM...
I ran a straight edge across the face of both pump housings and dropped a caliper down to measure where it touches the angled part for the impeller to sit. The rusty one has a closer tolerance by about 8 thousandths... it also has smaller coolant passages.
Do i just replace everything??????
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/14/20 11:29 AM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2763819
04/14/20 11:56 AM
04/14/20 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
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It might be a smart move to replace it all.. just a guess here.. I sure would like to see one of the housing that had the known issue.. on my SB stuff I run a motor plate and have the pump on top of the plate so there is a pretty good space where the pump mounts EDIT You also need to get ALL of the air out of the system... I put a bleed on mine
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/14/20 12:04 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#2763920
04/14/20 04:21 PM
04/14/20 04:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
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OP
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It sure would suck to find out the problem is just a lean carburetor. Do i just replace everything??????
Funny side note... already been there and done that. OK, 440source housing and pump from my 540. Takes a lot longer to get to temp, then hits 220, comes down to 180 and fan shuts off. Heats back up and hit 220 fan is on and brings it down to 205* just sitting idling in my carport. Stays at 205 for a long while. And its 15* warmer today than yesterday. Conclusion at this point is the smaller port 440source housing has tighter tolerance to the pump veins, thus moving more coolant.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2765299
04/17/20 11:34 PM
04/17/20 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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my fan trigger is in the coolant, it says 185* but its a bit off.... who sells a nice adjustable unit? I bought mine at the local auto parts store... its a reputable part supplier.. I can get the part number in the morning
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2765362
04/18/20 07:43 AM
04/18/20 07:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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i did a quick search on the temp fan controller. it says it turns the fan on at 185*-215*. quite the range.
but yes, id like to be able to kick that on, maybe a manual toggle switch too? how do I do an ignition switched ground manual switch? LOL. Thats pretty easy.. you run a wire from a positive source to the hot on the controller and ground the negative... I have one on my hot rod for when I run at the track.. if you wanted to you can have it on a timer so it shuts off on its own
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Re: new distributor
[Re: jb500]
#2765424
04/18/20 10:53 AM
04/18/20 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
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It sounds as though the new pump and T-stat are doing their job. The rad is doing it's job of exchanging heat as the temps do drop. Double check the sending unit for its on/off temp. Once that side of the equation is dialed in, you can work on the timing and AFR to finish the problem. An adjustable fan controller may be the ticket here as well??
Also, the last pic you have of your rad shows a shroud. Is it sealed up tight to the rad, or does it have some way for air to move through and then out at speed?? The shroud is riveted tight to the radiator. I don't think much if any air can escape it. this is the "restricted" 440 source housing
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/18/20 10:57 AM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Dart451]
#2765439
04/18/20 11:18 AM
04/18/20 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
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What is initial timing and what is advance all in? What rpm does the advance come in at? What rpm are you cruising at? Maybe a plug pic? after a steady cruise pull over and pull plug
Have you adjusted the idle mixture screws to make it run little rich see if that helps? I haven't checked all in timing... I know I know. cruising it at 2000ish. low speed, no issues there, its just off idle pop. ill post a plug pic later today
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Re: new distributor
[Re: jb500]
#2765567
04/18/20 05:08 PM
04/18/20 05:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
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You really have to know where your timing is at cruise RPM then I would try another carb if you can get your hands on one. The heat increase on cruise tells me lean condition or possible timing issues. This is assuming both radiators you tried made no difference. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2766015
04/19/20 04:36 PM
04/19/20 04:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
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idle timing set at 16*
still does pop.
I hit the gas it does nothing for 1/2 a second then goes, or it pops and backfires, and has died a few times. If this were a 2 stroke i would say LEAN! does this apply to 4 stroke as well? Do you have access to another carb and can you set total timing at 34 degrees? base timing doesn't really matter with this topic you need to know where it is at 2000-2500 and the base will be whatever it is At this point in your process you have to rule out ignition or fuel ratio so you know what it isn't Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: new distributor
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2766041
04/19/20 05:47 PM
04/19/20 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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wine country
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idle timing set at 16*
still does pop.
I hit the gas it does nothing for 1/2 a second then goes, or it pops and backfires, and has died a few times. If this were a 2 stroke i would say LEAN! does this apply to 4 stroke as well? Do you have access to another carb and can you set total timing at 34 degrees? base timing doesn't really matter with this topic you need to know where it is at 2000-2500 and the base will be whatever it is At this point in your process you have to rule out ignition or fuel ratio so you know what it isn't Gus the only other carb i have is a 1050 dominator... that won't help. on 2nd through i have a 650 holley on a SBC... runs great on a very mild 350 i need to get my other timing light from my parents house to set total timing, ill try to do that soon.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: mopar dave]
#2766042
04/19/20 05:47 PM
04/19/20 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
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I haven’t followed this post all the way thru, but do you have good pump shot? I would adjust your mixture screws using a vac gauge. Adjust 1/8 turn each screw til you get max vacuum, then another 1/16 turn each screwLeave it there for now. Do this with low rpm and in drive. As long as you have ignition advance and enough fuel, there should be no hesitation or pop. If that doesn’t fix, than there’s something more serious going on with it. i did this, just not in drive. i did it in park. does that make much of a difference?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2766085
04/19/20 08:07 PM
04/19/20 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 199 TN Hoosier
jb500
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 199
TN Hoosier
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idle timing set at 16*
still does pop.
I hit the gas it does nothing for 1/2 a second then goes, or it pops and backfires, and has died a few times. If this were a 2 stroke i would say LEAN! does this apply to 4 stroke as well? Do you have access to another carb and can you set total timing at 34 degrees? base timing doesn't really matter with this topic you need to know where it is at 2000-2500 and the base will be whatever it is At this point in your process you have to rule out ignition or fuel ratio so you know what it isn't Gus the only other carb i have is a 1050 dominator... that won't help. on 2nd through i have a 650 holley on a SBC... runs great on a very mild 350 i need to get my other timing light from my parents house to set total timing, ill try to do that soon. Is your current carb a vacuum secondary variant or a double pumper? It looks like a vac sec from your pics. Have you done any "performance mods" to your carb?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2766173
04/20/20 01:34 AM
04/20/20 01:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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Does the accelerator pump squirt as soon as the front throttle shaft moves? If not make sure it does, instant squirt is needed, especially off idle. I've seen and fix a bunch of "stock' Holley carbs that didn't, they all needed the pump arm screw lengthen to preload the accelerator pump properly You should have between .010 and .020 additional movement at WOT on that screw, that is why it is adjustable with the spring in it
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/20/20 01:35 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: mopar dave]
#2766385
04/20/20 04:45 PM
04/20/20 04:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
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Ok, I have a purple spring and no ball in the secondaries. The small screw to adjust the vacuum secondaries is on the bottom, o off came the carb. The play or gap is in spec. I adjusted all the valves, they were all a bit tight. like 1/2 turn too tight. i used comp cams suggestions, as it is a comp cam. I took the wiggle out and then did 1/2 turn. They are a bit noisier but, I gained 1" of vacuum. Idle timing at 20* car responds well, however all in around 3k im at 50* I found a leak in the trans, the guy who rebuilt apparently didn't tighten the front pressure port plug after testing, so it is leaking. have to wait for the exhaust to cool down before i remove, seal and reinstall. I pulled the electric fan off, ordered a flew fan spacer, will install as soon as it arrives. Hope this helps cool the motor. I would think at 220* i would start to see some pinging or detonation on pump gas in a 10 to 1 motor. Maybe not?
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/20/20 05:25 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Dart451]
#2767163
04/22/20 04:48 PM
04/22/20 04:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
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wine country
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OMG!!! :whiney : About ready to lose my s***..... AGGGHHHHH. Flex fan in, 1/2" from radiator, high flow milodon pump, high flow water pump housing, high flow 160* thermostat. Still runs hot!!! idle, road, highway.... sits at 210* I DO NOT YET HAVE A shroud, but id think at speed the airflow would make up for it? WHAT THE HECK!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/22/20 04:49 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: jb500]
#2767185
04/22/20 06:17 PM
04/22/20 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
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What has changed in your combo from this point in time??? It was exchanging heat and dropping the coolant temps.
"At idle in my carport it comes to 170* the t stat opens and it drops to 150*ish. when it warms that water up the stat opens again and hot water from the rad coms in and a few seconds later at about 210* the fan comes on and brings everything back down to 170-180* idling fan goes off and then on and so on. it works in the carport. This still happens. except now it has a mechanical fan. no electric fan, so it starts heats up, opens the t stat- comes down then slowly rises to 210ish. I took it for a test drive, it hung out around 200*-210* driving. seemed fine there, when i came to a stop it would slowly come down to 190-180* start driving again and it would go back to 200-210*. Maybe it isn't the best radiator? maybe the small ports on the housing don't flow enough water? maybe its a combination of it all."
now it heats up, and seems to stay around 210*, like its getting heat soaked. i don't know
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2767227
04/22/20 09:09 PM
04/22/20 09:09 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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It's pretty funny really. These overheating threads come up at least once a year (probably the same on other auto-related forums) and almost always follow this same course. Lots of suggestions, cooling system parts swapping, testing, all with little or no success. Sometimes people install massively overkill cooling systems and are okay afterward but how many people are out there doing just fine with the stock factory cooling system? Lots. I think the problem is that people assume the problem is the cooling system when the true culprit is elsewhere. There a LOT of lurkers watching but not participating because they've done it before, perhaps several times. OMG!!! :whiney : About ready to lose my s***..... AGGGHHHHH. Flex fan in, 1/2" from radiator, high flow milodon pump, high flow water pump housing, high flow 160* thermostat. Still runs hot!!! idle, road, highway.... sits at 210* I DO NOT YET HAVE A shroud, but id think at speed the airflow would make up for it? WHAT THE HECK!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: rickraw]
#2767269
04/22/20 11:07 PM
04/22/20 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Had the issure yrs ago. Get a test kit to check for exhaust in cooling system. You never know. starter relay just died, have to wait till tomorrow. i will test head gaskets then. this is just a lil' 383, what does everyone else do for cooling? what rad? what pump? what housing? what if any shroud.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Dart451]
#2767362
04/23/20 10:41 AM
04/23/20 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
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wine country
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You ever get the stumble out of the carb?
Maybe try locking the timing out at 36 degrees? Without a start delay will be hard to start hot but a easy test to see if anything is different. NO, I don't think it is a timing thing. It does it under 1500 rpms. Maybe even closer to 1k. In drive if i give it any gas off idle it will pop through the carb and sometimes die. If i barely move the throttle and get the rpms going up then it drives normal.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2767371
04/23/20 11:09 AM
04/23/20 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Its lean.. the spark is chasing the fuel.. have you done anything to the carb.. you might try opening the mixture screws a 1/8 of a turn
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/23/20 11:13 AM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2767589
04/23/20 07:34 PM
04/23/20 07:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2011
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I went to my buddys shop, he has also been giving me ideas. He lent me his blue point thermo gun. My in car gauge says 250* , The laser dot from the gun on temp probe says 180* I bring it back and he lends me his "expensive" thermo gun to verify. It reads within a few degrees of the blue point. I check over the whole motor, all exhaust several points on each head, the block, the oil pan the radiator etc... This means I have had 3 bad gauges, WHO THE HELL HAS THIS KIND OF LUCK???????? Also my exhaust at idle is between 650* and 850* the outer cylinders are 650* the 4 inner ones are 850*. I hate this thing right now!
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Dart451]
#2767791
04/24/20 10:17 AM
04/24/20 10:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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Your persistence on trying to figure it out is awesome. Hopefully this is your biggest problem in life, if so you are still winning So far yes, I mean bothy wife and I are currently unemployed- due to shelter in place orders, and she has not received 1 friggin penny so we are living on my unemployment wages.... UGH, but at least I have something to do . Thank you all. Next step is to remove stubble from carb, I will pull my wideband from my race Civic (1.6 liter 453 whp, 31 PSI) and put in the coronet. See where my AFRS are actually at.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: mopar dave]
#2767812
04/24/20 11:44 AM
04/24/20 11:44 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
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the only thing i can add about a temperature gun versus a gauge, is a gun is measuring the surface temperature, while a gauge is measuring the actual coolant [internal] temperature. with that said, i would expect the gun to be about 15-20 degrees [10 maybe ?] cooler than the gauge. just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2768273
04/25/20 09:29 PM
04/25/20 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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bought a cheap $20 mechanical gauge, it reads on point with the infrared gun... awesome, nothing like a chinese 20$ POS being more accurate than $100 USA made POS Car does not over heat, it probably never did. 3 gauges with matched sending units all busted. JUNK! New question- this car has a Hurst pro-matic 2 shifter, and it has melted several shifter cables, i have ran shorter longer etc... wrapped in heat shielding... but they all seem to die. I have a Lokar shifter, but on this B body it will dang near be under the dash. what other options are out there?
Last edited by 8urvette; 04/25/20 09:29 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2768361
04/26/20 10:26 AM
04/26/20 10:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,679 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,679
On the parachute mount
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bought a cheap $20 mechanical gauge, it reads on point with the infrared gun... awesome, nothing like a chinese 20$ POS being more accurate than $100 USA made POS Car does not over heat, it probably never did. 3 gauges with matched sending units all busted. JUNK! New question- this car has a Hurst pro-matic 2 shifter, and it has melted several shifter cables, i have ran shorter longer etc... wrapped in heat shielding... but they all seem to die. I have a Lokar shifter, but on this B body it will dang near be under the dash. what other options are out there? Melting the shifter cable??? Maybe you need a ground strap from your engine to the battery? I am anal about grounds and besides every ground in my car going back to the battery, my engine, heads, and trans all have ground straps that go back to the battery .
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2768365
04/26/20 10:42 AM
04/26/20 10:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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i like the look of the winters, it seems like a simple easy shift pattern as well. I think my pops would like that! Thank you for the suggestions.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2768366
04/26/20 10:43 AM
04/26/20 10:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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I use a heavy duty cable and some heat wrap on it with careful routing.. I really try to keep it away from heat I had it wrapped and zip tied as far away from the hears as it could be, took a while, several starts and such before it melted, but it did.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: n20mstr]
#2768367
04/26/20 10:44 AM
04/26/20 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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bought a cheap $20 mechanical gauge, it reads on point with the infrared gun... awesome, nothing like a chinese 20$ POS being more accurate than $100 USA made POS Car does not over heat, it probably never did. 3 gauges with matched sending units all busted. JUNK! New question- this car has a Hurst pro-matic 2 shifter, and it has melted several shifter cables, i have ran shorter longer etc... wrapped in heat shielding... but they all seem to die. I have a Lokar shifter, but on this B body it will dang near be under the dash. what other options are out there? Melting the shifter cable??? Maybe you need a ground strap from your engine to the battery? I am anal about grounds and besides every ground in my car going back to the battery, my engine, heads, and trans all have ground straps that go back to the battery . I just added a new ground actually from the motor to the chassis. But it is melting due to heat. the car has the schumacher heads and there is just no room to keep the cable away from the heat. I think i may do the rear exit shifter.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2769663
04/29/20 09:45 PM
04/29/20 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA
493_DART
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
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I just use a HHR(chevy) fan and shroud and dont have any problems on my SB street rod... take your stat out and try it I have the HHR fan in my dart...it flows a ton of air and solved my heat issue !
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Dart451]
#2769700
04/30/20 12:43 AM
04/30/20 12:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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Nice looking car,
Thought you mentioned you had another carb you could try. I would do that and see if any improvement. I'm going to check the power valve tomorrow. The. Try the one off my caddy .
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2769804
04/30/20 12:29 PM
04/30/20 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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i pulled the carb apart, no issues with power valve or jetting. it is a holley 870 avenger. verified jetting for this carb etc.. however the power valve did have 2 gaskets on it. I pulled the PV and it had one on it and one of the metering plate. thinking it split i inspected it and compared it to the 1 replacement i had. I had 2 gaskets from the factory. I hope it is supposed to only have one. Thats how it went back. thinking now maybe it is time for a cam swap. after talking with my friends, many of which are professional gear heads we have tried and ruled out just about everything that could cause this backfire. The one thing left is maybe the comp cam custom grind they did for this engine is messed up??? I also want to get a little more vacuum back into the engine so I am thinking if something sub .500 lift. mopar 484 cam? id love to see this motor make some decent power, right now it does not. it is slow, weak and underwhelming. id think a 10 to 1 383 with stealth heads, harland sharp rockers, 1 3/4 headers, m1 intake and 870 vac carb would be snappy and fun. the car has 3.91 gears and a 26" tall rear tire. I know 400 is very attainable from a 383 of this build- do you guys think a mopar cam is the way to go?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2769811
04/30/20 12:55 PM
04/30/20 12:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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. I know 400 is very attainable from a 383 of this build- do you guys think a mopar cam is the way to go? NOOOOO Is this cam degreed? If not do that first. If it is degree what are the specs on the duration at .050 and LSA and intake lobe center? I'm still thinking you have a lean pop at light part throttle application, driving Or maybe a vacuum leak
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2769835
04/30/20 02:19 PM
04/30/20 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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. I know 400 is very attainable from a 383 of this build- do you guys think a mopar cam is the way to go? NOOOOO Is this cam degreed? If not do that first. If it is degree what are the specs on the duration at .050 and LSA and intake lobe center? I'm still thinking you have a lean pop at light part throttle application, driving Or maybe a vacuum leak the cam is degreed, cam card said 112 or 113. it was at 114, i tried 112 and now 108 and no change. The carb is a 870 vacuum secondaries, i have tried 2 distributors,... checked for vacuum leaks at the carb, and intake with spray. saw no change. adjusted valves multiple times. No change, it pops and backfires through the carb. Timing has been adjust from 5 ATDC Through- 20 BTDC Thoughts?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2769966
04/30/20 09:22 PM
04/30/20 09:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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I did not look back to find the cam specs but any time I hear 112,113 LSA on a N/A BB Mopar I cringe unless it is for power brakes. All the BB I've play with N/A except one B1 bracket motor liked cams ground on 110 or narrower LSA, the B1 motor had a solid roller race cam ground from Koffels on a 111 LSA installed at 109 ATDC on the intake lobe and it made 920 HP at or around 7000 RPM with single Dominator carb on a cast single four barrel B1 intake Have you done a compression test and or a leak down test on all 8 cylinders? If not I would so I could be sure none of the intake valves are staying opened or bent 383 motors are a short stroke motor so they don't have the torque or power that the BB do so to get them to make good power you have to revved them up (above 6000 RPM) and keep them revved up in the power band
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/30/20 09:24 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2770007
04/30/20 11:31 PM
04/30/20 11:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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I pulled a 600 cfm carb off my caddy with a SBC, dropped it on and the car runs great! No backfire, no pop, great throttle response.
This is an older model with manual choke and single fuel inlet. It started right up, and idled great. revved it and no backfire, took it for a drive and it drove great.
Why does the carb I took off a Holley Avenger 870, run like poo? Power valve was fine, no vacuum leaks i could find.
I started the car on the avenger, revved it, and it backfired. Swapped the carbs started it, revved it and no back fire.
No changes, reused the carb base gasket, NO tuning changes, same timing. WHAT THE HECK!!!! THIS WAS A BRAND NEW HOLLEY!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2770058
05/01/20 08:58 AM
05/01/20 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667 IL
Dart451
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667
IL
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Assuming low cost provider on parts. Check see if all air bleeds, jet passageways ect are clean.
I was thinking the carb was giving problems my friend was fighting the same issue. i took one of my old carbs over and his car ran fine.
Last edited by Dart451; 05/01/20 09:00 AM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2770272
05/01/20 10:12 PM
05/01/20 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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I would prefer to do it myself.
Took it for a test drive tonight. was running kinda weird, little stumble in first gear, not a lot of power till about 3k rpms. Then it died on me. Just died rolling up to a stop light. Would not restart. Didn't hiccup, fart or couch. Just cranked.
I checked all the connections and fuses for the ignition. All good. I cranked it several more times over a few minutes. Nothing. I decided it was a good time to watch good ol youtube. After a 10 minute video, i hit the key and it fired right up.
Ran better than it did earlier, no stumble, no hesitation. I just drove it home.
This happened the other night, except it just wouldn't start. I checked for spark then and had none. I messed with a connection for 12v. and then it started, i had assumed it was a bad connection, so i replaced it. I am now thinking this wasn't the issue it was purely coincidental.
It has fuel, and it has air, so it must be spark.
MSD 6AL and MSD coil. would the coil be most likely to heat up and cause an open? then cool down and work? or would the 6AL be more likely to do that?
Since i got it home everything works so i can't very well check it now. Just looking for a game plan.
Last edited by 8urvette; 05/01/20 10:13 PM.
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2770274
05/01/20 10:14 PM
05/01/20 10:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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If my memory is serving me correct the" 657" carrier was made before the 742 was, maybe prior to 1962, I have seen on here that they both use the same size pinion gear , seals and pinion bearing, I'm not sure if that is correct or not though I remember seeing one in a 1957 or 1958 Plymouth Savoy flat head stick shift car that had 3.73 gears in it, I wish now that I had bagged that rascal but I didn't
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2770518
05/02/20 06:49 PM
05/02/20 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
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I would prefer to do it myself.
Took it for a test drive tonight. was running kinda weird, little stumble in first gear, not a lot of power till about 3k rpms. Then it died on me. Just died rolling up to a stop light. Would not restart. Didn't hiccup, fart or couch. Just cranked.
I checked all the connections and fuses for the ignition. All good. I cranked it several more times over a few minutes. Nothing. I decided it was a good time to watch good ol youtube. After a 10 minute video, i hit the key and it fired right up.
Ran better than it did earlier, no stumble, no hesitation. I just drove it home.
This happened the other night, except it just wouldn't start. I checked for spark then and had none. I messed with a connection for 12v. and then it started, i had assumed it was a bad connection, so i replaced it. I am now thinking this wasn't the issue it was purely coincidental.
It has fuel, and it has air, so it must be spark.
MSD 6AL and MSD coil. would the coil be most likely to heat up and cause an open? then cool down and work? or would the 6AL be more likely to do that?
Since i got it home everything works so i can't very well check it now. Just looking for a game plan. Nobody has had an issue with their MSD cutting out while driving?
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Re: new distributor
[Re: 8urvette]
#2770533
05/02/20 07:56 PM
05/02/20 07:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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You have a bad connectio, or corrosion, in the circuit feeding 12V to the MSD box or between the box and coil or maybe the mag pickup connections Something is heating up and breaking the connection stopping the power to one of those components Once it cools down and shrinks back down it works correct How close to the ocean do you park the car or are you in the bay area where it gets really foggy ?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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