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Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Prodart440] #2759675
04/03/20 10:59 PM
04/03/20 10:59 PM
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Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
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Originally Posted by Prodart440
Originally Posted by Dave_J
Originally Posted by topside
The speed thing: there are people who are incapable at any speed, and there are cars & drivers who are capable at well over the posted limit.

The Germans have it figured out better than anyone, but also have a culture & requirements to make their deal work as well as it does.

Anyone driving through Spokane Valley on I-90: the cops use unmarked, non-typical-LEO vehicles, with hidden lights.
For a few miles, Limit drops to 60, although the freeway should still be 70; natural 95th-percentile flow is usually 70, too.
To me, that's not only "cheating", but if something doesn't present itself as law enforcement, it may not seem - or be - legit to other drivers.
There was a problem a while back where some bad guys were posing externally as LEO to get up to the cars who'd pull over.

The WSP in the Bellevue WA area have a few SNEEKER cars too. A few F150's and a few 2003-2005 Buick LeSabers.


Yeah, one of the F150's has a dirt bike in the back to blend in.

ProD, Living out here 1 mile south of Pacific Raceway (Lake Holms), it is strangely quite. I am so use to hearing the track.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
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Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


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Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Dave_J] #2759682
04/03/20 11:18 PM
04/03/20 11:18 PM
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Posts: 12,422
Warren, MI
71TA Offline
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We live right on the Detroit border. When I get on the highway people coming out of Detroit blow by me like they were shot from a canon. 90 in a 55 is TYPICAL. But the police NEVER SET UP THERE. Why? Cause they know what the Mayor of Detroit said on public TV, "65% or more of the drivers in Detroit don't have car insurance or drivers licenses". My son in law said they don't pull the cars over cause its a ton of paperwork and an someone with 1000 tickets, 50 suspensions and 10 DUI's already. PS When driving in Detroit, the residents think stopping for red light and stop signs is optional. And then they complain they are being "picked on" for insurance that is 2-5x the rate in the surrounding communities. CAUSE THATS WHERE THE CRIIME IS. Wife and I lived in the NE corner of Detroit when were in our 20's. Our first 2 homes were IN Detroit. We had a car stolen at both. When we moved just outside Detroit our neighbors didn't steal our cars anymore.

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: not_a_charger] #2759693
04/04/20 02:19 AM
04/04/20 02:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,066
(Central) PA
Runner2go Offline OP
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Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Traps? As in a trap to catch people breaking the law? Don't speed, don't have to worry about it. Break the law, pay the consequences.


Well it turns out it was a trap after all.... flame
It was on the local news tonight... the State Cops were using the traffic violation traps in York(sounds like more than 1) as an excuse to implement the Governors recent "stay at home" policy, via intimidation through the publicity it would get. In addition to any speeding ticket or window tint warning they handed out, an additional fine for violating "Stay at Home", was given to anyone that couldn't produce "Essential Employee" paperwork, receipt from Dr co-pay, actual groceries, etc... (they knew there would be no groceries.... because no one goes across the river to buy them... the stores are too far away)... Apparently they didn't pull over any marked work trucks... they were "Targeting passenger vehicles".

Even the reporter seemed more than a little put off... tickets handed out were stated as $200 and up.
It was never even announced they were going to FINE people over Stay at Home...
But it seems they are, and like everything else in this State, the fine amount appears to be variable.
PA... always in the running for "most corrupt State". frown
The Judge is going to be pretty busy in the near future. whistling

Pretty sure they will add this one to the growing list of quickly rebuffed & reversed decisions by PA's fearless leader. spank
Tonight he also added Mandatory Masks... if you don't have one, he said to "Make One". rolleyes

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Runner2go] #2759702
04/04/20 04:02 AM
04/04/20 04:02 AM
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Well it turns out it was a trap after all.... flame
It was on the local news tonight... the State Cops were using the traffic violation traps in York(sounds like more than 1) as an excuse to implement the Governors recent "stay at home" policy, via intimidation through the publicity it would get.


Ridiculous: considering with what's happening around the country!!
Using a Valuable Resource for such a Petty Deed.
Surely, in-this-day&age, they can be put to much better use.

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: PhillyRag] #2759718
04/04/20 07:49 AM
04/04/20 07:49 AM

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Ummm, what section of the PA motor vehicle code am I violating when driving during a plague stay at home guideline?

Heard a thing on the radio yesterday: Apparently booze stores in Delaware are still open (PA shops closed at least a week ago) so the Delaware cops were supposedly near the parking lot entrance turning around people that didn't have Delaware licence plates. I wonder how many of them just found a empty parking lot down the street?

Local cops in PA aren't allowed to have radar guns so they still use the old school timing marks painted on the street. They do a fairly good job of putting them in places you won't see until you're right on them but if you've ever been down that road before, ya know where they might be. Last year they put a new set just down the street from my house. At least one day a month it's not stop sirens all afternoon and frigging annoying. Ya know, small town cop attitude - can't just roll up on them and hit the lights.

I've been tempted on a few occasions to make up a yard sale style sign (card board, sharpie, telephone pole) that reads "SPEED TRAP ACTIVE TODAY" and put it up a little farther down the road.

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: DAYCLONA] #2759719
04/04/20 07:52 AM
04/04/20 07:52 AM
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Greenville, PA
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Originally Posted by DAYCLONA
Originally Posted by stumpy
People gripe when the cops don't do their job and gripe when they do. Make up your minds.




revenue collection trap by petty vehicle traffic law enforcement, or any kind of profiling stops, check points, etc

Sounds like DOT checkpoint. Do they want to nitpick to make money or stop gross violations?

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: A727Tflite] #2759761
04/04/20 10:22 AM
04/04/20 10:22 AM
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St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline
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Originally Posted by Transman
Runnertogo, look up cosine effect for tragic radar. That cop catches someone going let’s be say 70, with a steep angle like you mention, the driver is actually traveling faster. He gets a break if the radar showed 70, he was actually going faster.

As for accuracy, traffic radar is accurate. As long as the operator is trained and uses it correctly.

Traffic radar class - you spend more time in class learning all the anomalies and how to prevent them.



You know your stuff! up

Former State certified (Missouri) police Radar instructor here...

I always instructed my police students that I’d rather see focused enforcement in accident prone areas, vs a hundred tickets where there hasn’t been in accident in years.

I called the latter “Guppy Shooting.” And I despise it.

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Cometstorm] #2759816
04/04/20 01:03 PM
04/04/20 01:03 PM
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Posts: 12,066
(Central) PA
Runner2go Offline OP
I Live Here
Runner2go  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cometstorm
Originally Posted by Transman
Runnertogo, look up cosine effect for tragic radar. That cop catches someone going let’s be say 70, with a steep angle like you mention, the driver is actually traveling faster. He gets a break if the radar showed 70, he was actually going faster.

As for accuracy, traffic radar is accurate. As long as the operator is trained and uses it correctly.

Traffic radar class - you spend more time in class learning all the anomalies and how to prevent them.



You know your stuff! up

Former State certified (Missouri) police Radar instructor here...

I always instructed my police students that I’d rather see focused enforcement in accident prone areas, vs a hundred tickets where there hasn’t been in accident in years.

I called the latter “Guppy Shooting.” And I despise it.

Our marina in Maryland is full of PA cops (mostly retired) & we've had that conversation often over late night drinks.
They were pretty much in agreement, that behavior was mostly a young mans game... that once they got a few years under their belt, those cops would finally knock that crap off. Also on there BS list... were those hiding halfway down a hill on a highway, snagging those cars that "Coast" above the limit with the cruise control on. Although they said that might not work with new cars, that hold the speed better than they did 20years ago. Our old's Aurora use to gain a good 10mph... man that car loved to coastlaugh2

They'd also tell me to take every ticket to court... sometimes a cop might be busy and not show,,, and if he does, plead to (I forget the exact wording, only the Wife every had to use it) something along the lines of "Failure to adhere/comply/something with Traffic control device"... You'd still get the fine, and they get their money(all they care about), but you don't get any points... in PA anyway.

Something the wife mentioned today about yesterdays trap location on rt30...
That is the primary egress point over the river INTO York county, from Lancaster county.
Maybe they thought they had more of a leg to stand on, asking people why they were entering(or previously left) the county.

Also of note.... Not a single Cop was WEARING A MASK... and I looked right at all of them.
So anyone just driving around in their own car, minding there own business, had ZERO opportunity to either catch or spread Covid-19... That is, until they rolled down their window and allowed the Cop to breath on them or touch their license... Because who knows how many people had already breathed on that cop before them. Or handed them their PLASTIC germ infested license.

Just food for thought....
I'm sure the ambulance chasing lawyers watching the news last night, already thought of that. whistling

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Runner2go] #2759860
04/04/20 02:05 PM
04/04/20 02:05 PM
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Weird. I just assumed my local law enforcement is tied up with domestic disputes....

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Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: topside] #2759884
04/04/20 02:15 PM
04/04/20 02:15 PM
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Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
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Central Florida
Originally Posted by topside
Radar doesn't have to be accurate, it just has to generate revenue.
Actually not true. They have to be checked for calibration and transman and cometstorm educated you. up

I have noticed speeding has increased dramatically lately. Many drivers assume that Police Officers do not want close contact with anyone right now, and will let many traffic violators go right on by. I find it strange that some call Officers enforcing the speed limit a "speed trap".

If you go into a store and security has a lot of loss prevention people working due to heavy retail thefts, is it a "stealing trap"?


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Runner2go] #2759954
04/04/20 02:53 PM
04/04/20 02:53 PM
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Highland, MI.
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Originally Posted by Runner2go
Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Traps? As in a trap to catch people breaking the law? Don't speed, don't have to worry about it. Break the law, pay the consequences.


Well it turns out it was a trap after all.... flame
It was on the local news tonight... the State Cops were using the traffic violation traps in York(sounds like more than 1) as an excuse to implement the Governors recent "stay at home" policy, via intimidation through the publicity it would get. In addition to any speeding ticket or window tint warning they handed out, an additional fine for violating "Stay at Home", was given to anyone that couldn't produce "Essential Employee" paperwork, receipt from Dr co-pay, actual groceries, etc... (they knew there would be no groceries.... because no one goes across the river to buy them... the stores are too far away)... Apparently they didn't pull over any marked work trucks... they were "Targeting passenger vehicles".

Even the reporter seemed more than a little put off... tickets handed out were stated as $200 and up.
It was never even announced they were going to FINE people over Stay at Home...
But it seems they are, and like everything else in this State, the fine amount appears to be variable.
PA... always in the running for "most corrupt State". frown
The Judge is going to be pretty busy in the near future. whistling

Pretty sure they will add this one to the growing list of quickly rebuffed & reversed decisions by PA's fearless leader. spank
Tonight he also added Mandatory Masks... if you don't have one, he said to "Make One". rolleyes


Speaking of PA., just read this earlier today:

PA State Police ticket woman for driving
She went for a drive just to get out of the house. Did not go to a store or was with anyone

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/0...me-order.htmlA 19-year-old York County woman went out for a drive just to get out of the house for awhile on Sunday evening and was circling her way back home when she was stopped by two state police cars.

They cited her for violatingGov. Tom Wolf’s stay-at-home order that took effect in York County two days before.


Anita Shaffer is now faced with what appears to be a ticket of at least $202.25 for breaking the state’s Disease Control and Prevention Act of 1955. She pleaded not guilty and intends to take up the matter before a magisterial district judge.

The citation fails to mention a fine amount but Trooper Brent Miller said it is a summary offense and the fine would be $25, which would bring the total cost of the ticket up to $227.25.

Shaffer said she saw the police cars parked in Yoe. After passing them, the police started following her until they pulled her over in Red Lion. One of the troopers said they stopped her because her taillight was out, she said. The trooper also mentioned that her window tinting was too dark, she said.

She said the troopers also asked her if she was under the influence or on drugs. She told them she wasn’t but she said she was still told to step out of her car and troopers shined a flashlight in her eyes. Then the trooper told her to return to her car.

“He asked me if I was aware of the stay-at-home act,” she said. She responded: “I am aware of it but I didn’t know it pertained to just driving.”



The trooper told her he wasn’t going to fine her for the window tint or taillight "but you should be at home during this act that’s in place right now and just get the taillight fixed,” Shaffer said. Once she got home, she and her father Neil Shaffer said they discovered the taillight was working fine.

Shaffer said she was alone in her car and had no intention of getting out of it.

On the citation, it states she “failed to abide by the order of the governor and secretary of health issued to control the spread of a communicable disease, requiring the closure of all non-life-sustaining businesses as of 20:00 hours on March 19, 2020. To wit, defendant states that she was ‘going for a drive’ after this violation was in effect.”

While the governor’s stay-at-home order is mandatory, state police spokesman Ryan Tarkowski said voluntary compliance is preferred and is what the state police are focusing on.

“Troopers have been encouraged to use contacts with the public as opportunities to reinforce the necessity to abide by stay-at-home orders,” he said.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Then read this: https://pjmedia.com/trending/rebell...sked-for-your-papers-says-maine-sheriff/


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2759966
04/04/20 03:02 PM
04/04/20 03:02 PM
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Central Pa
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My job is considered an essential. I do a lot of traveling throughout PA, but to remote locations which are not very populated at all. I was doing work in the pocono mt area last week, all week. Many, many out of state plates( first time I have EVER seen a Mississippi plate in PA), I could go on about the odd and unusual patterns I've been recording, but wont hijack this thread. My point is, the cops were EVERYWHERE last week on the highway. And they were all of 10 mins apart from each other in the open and not so open. It was very noticeable and I thought it was a money grab. Not the first, wont be the last. Driving through PA.? Do the speed limit and dont get out of your car if you dont have to. In fact, dont drive through PA(heheh)

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: moparjim79] #2760034
04/04/20 03:36 PM
04/04/20 03:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
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Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
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It wasn't a speed trap then it was a state at home order trap


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: larrymopar360] #2760037
04/04/20 03:49 PM
04/04/20 03:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,066
(Central) PA
Runner2go Offline OP
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Runner2go  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by larrymopar360
It wasn't a speed trap then it was a state at home order trap

Pretty much... which will likely be challenged in court at some point.
Heading out and wondering around stores with the family is dumb (people are doing it)

But just driving in your car offer's NO CHANCE of spreading anything, UNTIL you roll down the window and hand a cop a plastic license... At that point, you're pretty much being exposed to everything the cop was exposed to that day... (He's probably not happy about it either) and the stop is likely much better at spreading germs, than just wondering around a store and maintaining 6ft of separation.


Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2760050
04/04/20 04:46 PM
04/04/20 04:46 PM
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Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
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Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda


Speaking of PA., just read this earlier today:

PA State Police ticket woman for driving
She went for a drive just to get out of the house. Did not go to a store or was with anyone

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/0...me-order.htmlA 19-year-old York County woman went out for a drive just to get out of the house for awhile on Sunday evening and was circling her way back home when she was stopped by two state police cars.

They cited her for violatingGov. Tom Wolf’s stay-at-home order that took effect in York County two days before.


Anita Shaffer is now faced with what appears to be a ticket of at least $202.25 for breaking the state’s Disease Control and Prevention Act of 1955. She pleaded not guilty and intends to take up the matter before a magisterial district judge.

The citation fails to mention a fine amount but Trooper Brent Miller said it is a summary offense and the fine would be $25, which would bring the total cost of the ticket up to $227.25.

Shaffer said she saw the police cars parked in Yoe. After passing them, the police started following her until they pulled her over in Red Lion. One of the troopers said they stopped her because her taillight was out, she said. The trooper also mentioned that her window tinting was too dark, she said.

She said the troopers also asked her if she was under the influence or on drugs. She told them she wasn’t but she said she was still told to step out of her car and troopers shined a flashlight in her eyes. Then the trooper told her to return to her car.

“He asked me if I was aware of the stay-at-home act,” she said. She responded: “I am aware of it but I didn’t know it pertained to just driving.”



The trooper told her he wasn’t going to fine her for the window tint or taillight "but you should be at home during this act that’s in place right now and just get the taillight fixed,” Shaffer said. Once she got home, she and her father Neil Shaffer said they discovered the taillight was working fine.

Shaffer said she was alone in her car and had no intention of getting out of it.

On the citation, it states she “failed to abide by the order of the governor and secretary of health issued to control the spread of a communicable disease, requiring the closure of all non-life-sustaining businesses as of 20:00 hours on March 19, 2020. To wit, defendant states that she was ‘going for a drive’ after this violation was in effect.”

While the governor’s stay-at-home order is mandatory, state police spokesman Ryan Tarkowski said voluntary compliance is preferred and is what the state police are focusing on.

“Troopers have been encouraged to use contacts with the public as opportunities to reinforce the necessity to abide by stay-at-home orders,” he said.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Then read this: https://pjmedia.com/trending/rebell...sked-for-your-papers-says-maine-sheriff/


This is a case for the ACLU to jump on. She was inside her personal property doing personal things. This type of case has been taken to court before when a person was doing a self PLEASURE act inside a car while driving. The case was won by the man that took matters in hand.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
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Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: 71TA] #2760065
04/04/20 05:26 PM
04/04/20 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,369
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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Michigan
Originally Posted by 71TA
. PS When driving in Detroit, the residents think stopping for red light and stop signs is optional.


Heh, I was told by a Detroit cop NOT to stop for those. A moving target is less preferable to a sitting one.

Last edited by MarkM; 04/04/20 05:28 PM.

1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Cometstorm] #2760181
04/04/20 09:47 PM
04/04/20 09:47 PM
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Michigan
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Originally Posted by Cometstorm
Originally Posted by Transman
Runnertogo, look up cosine effect for tragic radar. That cop catches someone going let’s be say 70, with a steep angle like you mention, the driver is actually traveling faster. He gets a break if the radar showed 70, he was actually going faster.

As for accuracy, traffic radar is accurate. As long as the operator is trained and uses it correctly.

Traffic radar class - you spend more time in class learning all the anomalies and how to prevent them.



You know your stuff! up

Former State certified (Missouri) police Radar instructor here...

I always instructed my police students that I’d rather see focused enforcement in accident prone areas, vs a hundred tickets where there hasn’t been in accident in years.

I called the latter “Guppy Shooting.” And I despise it.


I was radar certified back in 1983. I’m sure you are familiar with the 80 mph tree. My certification got me out of no less than three bogus tickets by fellow officers that had an active speeder but picked the wrong car. One judge was particularly amused when I asked the officer a few equipment questions and my vehicle placement questions that he had no answer for.

I never hid my scout, I was always in plain view. I figured if you didn’t see my black and white you wouldn’t have seen a kid run in the street. I never wrote unless it was at least 10 over.

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2760239
04/05/20 07:10 AM
04/05/20 07:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda


Speaking of PA., just read this earlier today:

PA State Police ticket woman for driving
She went for a drive just to get out of the house. Did not go to a store or was with anyone

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/0...me-order.htmlA 19-year-old York County woman went out for a drive just to get out of the house for awhile on Sunday evening and was circling her way back home when she was stopped by two state police cars.

They cited her for violatingGov. Tom Wolf’s stay-at-home order that took effect in York County two days before.

Anita Shaffer is now faced with what appears to be a ticket of at least $202.25 for breaking the state’s Disease Control and Prevention Act of 1955. She pleaded not guilty and intends to take up the matter before a magisterial district judge.



It's been my personal experience that no conversation with a PA state cop concludes without a ticket for something. Your mileage may vary but generally if they get out of the car, they're gonna write something.

As for the Disease Control and Prevention Act on 1955 and subsequent amendments: If ya dig in to it, it's largely about providing courts with the authority to order medical testing and impose quarantines on individuals. It does use broad language like "communicable diseases" but it seems largely focused on sexually transmitted disease in the context of rape, child molesting or situations where somebody knowingly and intentionally infected somebody else. I didn't wade all the way through it so that's my top level understanding.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdoc...v=0&chpt=73&sctn=1&subsctn=0
PA Statues Title 35
Chapter 73 Commonwealth Services
Subchapter A The Governor and Disaster Emergencies
Section 7101 General Authority of the Governor
paragraph (f) Additional powers
subparagraph (7) Control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area, the movement of persons within the area and the occupancy of premises therein.

Answers my own question above about what law I'm breaking by going for a ride in an area where a state of emergency has been declared by the governor. Technically ya can probably get the same ticket for joy riding during a blizzard or sight seeing after Katrina or Sandy blows through but that never happens.

A much longer dissertation on the general provisions of the act and yeah, I am that bored:
http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/setting-3008/file-722.pdf?cb=7605f8

IF I wander outta the bunker and get ticketed, I'll waste at least $227.25 of the courts time fighting the ticket.

Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: ] #2760372
04/05/20 12:46 PM
04/05/20 12:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,066
(Central) PA
Runner2go Offline OP
I Live Here
Runner2go  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by RWG75
It's been my personal experience that no conversation with a PA state cop concludes without a ticket for something. Your mileage may vary but generally if they get out of the car, they're gonna write something.
-------
IF I wander outta the bunker and get ticketed, I'll waste at least $227.25 of the courts time fighting the ticket.

Well we were the State that had big green signs along highways, that listed the $$ fine for each XX amount over the limit. work
That way you knew what is was going to cost up front, and could pick a speed according to what you could afford. stirthepot
They disappeared after late night TV made them the butt of many jokes. whistling


As to pulling people over to fine them for quarantine violations, using speeding & window tint as an excuse... flame
They are exposing themselves and everyone they pull over, to significantly higher risk than leaving them alone.
If they actually cared about "health" over $$... they would stage themselves at stores where people show up with the whole family.
Some poor [censored] out for a drive is NOT THE PROBLEM... expect the lawsuits to fly as more people report being stopped.

And so it begins... whistling
Law office analysis of that reported York stop...
Pennsylvania State Police Are Now Enforcing Governor Wolf’s Stay-At-Home Order


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Re: PA State Cops must have missed March $$ target [Re: Runner2go] #2760394
04/05/20 02:23 PM
04/05/20 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,713
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
larrymopar360  Offline
Stud Muffin

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,713
Central Florida
No matter what the Police do, there will always be those who condemn their actions, for various reasons. It's also so easy to decide to be an expert, and make things seem so simple without any training or experience, and arm chair quarterback.

I am now leaving this thread because it's becoming yet another bash law enforcement thread, and they get tiresome.


Facts are stubborn things.
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