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833 clutch issues....pedal feel. #2757254
03/29/20 02:45 PM
03/29/20 02:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,645
MO
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cdp Offline OP
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cdp  Offline OP
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This is the first time messing with a 4spd 4 me. 1971 plymouth RR, 383 4sp. Over the counter NAPA replacement diaphragm clutch. All parts are new. Rebuilt clutch pedal assembly, all new rod assembly, clutch fork, Z-bar, etc. I replaced everything with new OEM stuff.

When I first got everything assembled and installed (car has no front clip yet, so yard driving) I adjusted the clutch and it felt good. About a month later, of just pulling it in and out of the garage to tinker on, the clutch started acting funny. I'd push it in 1 time, felt fine, push it in a few seconds later and it would release less, then push it in again, and it would barely come up off the floor. Made multiple adjustments and only got a temporary fix, only to go back the way it was.

Do I need to take out the clutch pedal spring? I had to find a replacement set of clutch pedals (original 4spd/replaced with automatic) and am now wondering if the spring is too stiff (IE, a 440 spring, rather than 340/383).

What else could I be missing? Bearing/fork not aligned right? Z-bar is new also, so I'm pretty sure its for the correct application.

Thanks
Chris

Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: cdp] #2757267
03/29/20 03:21 PM
03/29/20 03:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,435
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Online boogie
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Online Boogie
Too Many Posts

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,435
Kirkland, Washington
The overcenter spring is not specific to the engine, or clutch. They are all the same. You likely don’t need it with a diaphragm clutch. I removed mine with my McLeod clutch.
You do need a clutch pedal return spring down below on the linkage to ensure the pedal doesn’t ride on the throw out bearing at rest.

I would inspect your linkage very carefully, it sounds like something is hanging up.

Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2757274
03/29/20 03:37 PM
03/29/20 03:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,645
MO
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cdp Offline OP
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cdp  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,645
MO
I have the return spring on it. I'll be pulling the car out of storage in the next week or so. I just want to iron out anything and double check all adjustments before/incase I pull the tranny.

I've read here on Moparts that there is actually different springs on the clutch pedal spring depending on application....but I've not investigated it any further to confirm.

Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: cdp] #2757281
03/29/20 03:48 PM
03/29/20 03:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 401
massachusetts U.S.A.
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1969ronnie Offline
mopar
1969ronnie  Offline
mopar
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 401
massachusetts U.S.A.
Hi cdp , yup check parts section 6-35-1 for your right spring . a bunch of them listed , like 6 . ALL DIFFERENT . depending on engine or trans . even 3 speeds spring part numbers are DIFFERENT than 4 speeds . ronnie drive

Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: 1969ronnie] #2757341
03/29/20 06:44 PM
03/29/20 06:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,132
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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Sinitro  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,132
So Cal
Besides the return spring, there are differences in the Z-bars... It may be the right width, but the mounted tab that pushes back the rod to the fork may be incorrect. The rod should be parallel to the bell housing when the mounting tab is incorrect its entire geometry for smooth operation is wacko... I had this problem some years back, took my fork to our local Mopar guru, he smiled and brought out (3) different forks all these same width but the mounted tab was positioned different...

Just my $0.02... wink

Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: cdp] #2757457
03/30/20 12:36 AM
03/30/20 12:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,562
Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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SomeCarGuy  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,562
Someplace you aren't
Remove over center spring. Make sure it has a jam nut or at least replace the nylon nut. Sounds like it’s losing the adjustment and the pedal will not return when that happens. The nut moves some and eventually it gets to where it can’t overcome the pressure to return. Make sure to look into that since you’ve already had the nut move and be reset a few times. I just go with a jam nut right off the bat.


Forever in debt to your priceless advice...
Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2757488
03/30/20 07:33 AM
03/30/20 07:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,338
Abilene, Texas
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fastmark Offline
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fastmark  Offline
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Posts: 5,338
Abilene, Texas
The over the center springs are different for each engine application but the diaphragm type does not use them. This creates all kids of issues with a mopar. The over the center spring helps the pedal return to the top. Without it, your free play can that you have on the throw out bearing is not right. The ratio on the mopar pedal is different than what the diaphragm type clutch requires. The diaphragm type requires less travel. I’ve called Centerforce and even though they sell them for mopars, they were never designed for them. Some like the easy pedal but I’ve installed a few at customers request and they just don’t feel right to me. I don’t like them. I use the factory style Borg and Beck with no problems. A friend bought a Centerforce and hated it. Went to a Borg and Beck and he’s happy.

Re: 833 clutch issues....pedal feel. [Re: fastmark] #2757498
03/30/20 08:31 AM
03/30/20 08:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,840
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
master
fourgearsavoy  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,840
Rittman Ohio
It sounds like you may have some binding issues maybe in the fork area or release bearing. I would remove the over center spring and adjust the clutch until there is zero free-play then adjust it until you only have about 1 inch . I have seen this before when the release bearing was binding from not enough lube on the front retainer sleeve. You may need to install a pedal stop with this particular clutch as sometimes you have too much travel.
Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
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