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Track Width #2743186
02/15/20 01:08 PM
02/15/20 01:08 PM
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North America
Warhawk Offline OP
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I am trying to learn about handling with our old cars. Without changing the wheel type, is the width of the front end able to be widened? What problems would you run into ( Possibly tire rub on the fenders?) Is this even a possibility?

68 Charger is the car I am trying to work with.

Re: Track Width [Re: Warhawk] #2743191
02/15/20 01:19 PM
02/15/20 01:19 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Assuming by “wheel type” you are saying a different offset is out of the question then your choices come down to wheel spacers/adapters or longer Upper and Lower arms.

Spacers are OK if you just want a little bit...like a 1/4”. The problem is they load the bearings and ball joints because of the longer leverage of the wheel being farther out. If you baby the car it’s not a big deal....if you auto cross it it is.

I don’t know if anyone makes longer arms for these cars.

Re: Track Width [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2743197
02/15/20 01:22 PM
02/15/20 01:22 PM
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Warhawk Offline OP
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Thanks! Looks like a different wheel would be the safest and best solution. I love my car but always hated the way the font wheels set in the fenders so much. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone, handle better and make it look better as well.

Re: Track Width [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2743200
02/15/20 01:26 PM
02/15/20 01:26 PM
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Sniper Offline
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I was under the impression that the A body LCA is longer than the B/E ones and will swap over. No idea on the UCA though, not really a B/E type. I also know that Speedway sells adjustable UCA's of vearious lengths, not sure if they can be adapted to work easily though, example below.

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Re: Track Width [Re: Warhawk] #2743216
02/15/20 02:28 PM
02/15/20 02:28 PM
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Mequon, WI
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gzig5 Offline
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A 275 or greater width tire on an appropriate rim should fill the front fender well nicely. No need to change the suspension arms.

Re: Track Width [Re: gzig5] #2743220
02/15/20 03:11 PM
02/15/20 03:11 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by gzig5
A 275 or greater width tire on an appropriate rim should fill the front fender well nicely. No need to change the suspension arms.


An answer to a question that wasn’t asked.

Last edited by Pacnorthcuda; 02/15/20 03:15 PM.
Re: Track Width [Re: Warhawk] #2743253
02/15/20 05:25 PM
02/15/20 05:25 PM
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Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
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To create this change without changing wheel offset, you would need to have longer control arms, as pointed out above, or move the mounting points for the existing control arms out from the vehicle center line. Right now, no one is making bolt on upper and lower control arms for classic mopars that would accomplish this. Relocating frame rails for this type of benefit is more work than the benefit would create. Can it be done, certainly, but it will require fabrication of custom parts or adapting the mounting points to allow other types or arms to be installed. It is not unusual in the oval track crowd to have upper and lower control arms available in half inch increments from 5 to 12 inches in length. Adapting these is possible, but no one has done it that is hanging out here.

Another advantage of doing the longer control arms is that you create larger arcs of movement, which creates less dramatic change of angles as the suspension cycles. It also requires much more positive offset on the wheels to keep the tires in the same space. This high positive offset, which is common in modern cars, creates a negative scrub radius. In stock form, our mopars have a large positive scrub radius. Negative scrub radius provides decreased torque steer effect and more stable steering response and stability compared to positive scrub.

As pointed out above, A body lower arms are a fractional bit longer than B and E body arms. No stock style longer upper arms exist, but tubular arms with built in additional caster may allow you to offset the upper bushing enough to match the longer A body arm without getting radical camber and messing up your caster.

Re: Track Width [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2743254
02/15/20 05:25 PM
02/15/20 05:25 PM
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jcc Offline
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From a handling standpoint on track width:

1. EVERYTHING effects everything else
2. Like tires, and it seems very few agree with me, in that over past decades tires have steadily gotten wider, with little end in sight, and wider track is always better, biggest downside is aero drag, and that likely on comes into play significantly at over 100mph
3. It also looks cool biggrin

Last edited by jcc; 02/15/20 05:26 PM.

"I am really smart"
Re: Track Width [Re: jcc] #2743353
02/15/20 09:50 PM
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Tire width and track width are independent of each other.

Re: Track Width [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2743423
02/16/20 03:09 AM
02/16/20 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Originally Posted by gzig5
A 275 or greater width tire on an appropriate rim should fill the front fender well nicely. No need to change the suspension arms.


An answer to a question that wasn’t asked.


But it’s an answer to his objective (better handling)

Which car has more grip?:

9” treadwidth tire on all 4 corners with 60” track width

Or ?

8” treadwidth tire on all 4 corners with 62” track width.

All else equal of course.


.
.
.
Dodge offers a wide body version of the Charger & Challenger. . Every widebody comes with 305 (12.3”) wide tires vs non-widebody 275 (10.9”) wide. The widebody’s don’t come with the same smaller width tire.


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Re: Track Width [Re: Sniper] #2743466
02/16/20 09:51 AM
02/16/20 09:51 AM
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jcc Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Tire width and track width are independent of each other.


Regardless, wider is better for both, independent or not., What is your point?


"I am really smart"
Re: Track Width [Re: jcc] #2743467
02/16/20 09:54 AM
02/16/20 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Sniper
Tire width and track width are independent of each other.


Regardless, wider is better for both, independent or not., What is your point?


You're the master of irrelevant tangents.

Re: Track Width [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2743654
02/16/20 04:48 PM
02/16/20 04:48 PM
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gzig5 Offline
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Originally Posted by gzig5
A 275 or greater width tire on an appropriate rim should fill the front fender well nicely. No need to change the suspension arms.


An answer to a question that wasn’t asked.


As stated in the third post, he wants the tire sidewall closer to the fender to give a different look. A wider tire or even more offset accomplishes that. If you want to keep the 205-70-14 on the front and redesign the front suspension to get it closer to the fender, feel free.

Re: Track Width [Re: Sniper] #2743834
02/17/20 05:02 AM
02/17/20 05:02 AM
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jcc Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Sniper
Tire width and track width are independent of each other.


Regardless, wider is better for both, independent or not., What is your point?


You're the master of irrelevant tangents.


I'm not sure about that, "Tire width and track width are independent of each other." is pretty hard to surpass.


"I am really smart"
Re: Track Width [Re: Warhawk] #2745969
02/24/20 02:23 AM
02/24/20 02:23 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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On your deal using a similar looking wheel with the same width with the centers move in one inch will move the outer edge to the tires out one inch work scope
Changing the width of the wheels two inches wider with the same offset as original wheels will do that also work up But it moves the inner tire edge in one inch also work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Track Width [Re: jcc] #2746323
02/25/20 07:46 AM
02/25/20 07:46 AM
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Sniper
Tire width and track width are independent of each other.


Regardless, wider is better for both, independent or not., What is your point?


You're the master of irrelevant tangents.


I'm not sure about that, "Tire width and track width are independent of each other." is pretty hard to surpass.


That pretty much sums up the fact that you know nothing about the subject at hand.

Explain to us how, without changing anything else, a change in tire width affects track width.

Even better, explain to us how a change in track width changes tire width.

Re: Track Width [Re: Sniper] #2746396
02/25/20 12:43 PM
02/25/20 12:43 PM
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jcc Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by jcc
[quote=Sniper]Tire width and track width are independent of each other.


Regardless, wider is better for both, independent or not., What is your point?


You're the master of irrelevant tangents.


That pretty much sums up the fact that you know nothing about the subject at hand.

Explain to us how, without changing anything else, a change in tire width affects track width.

Even better, explain to us how a change in track width changes tire width.



Dude, you are stating the obvious, and don't seem to know it, which in my book fits somewhat the use of your term ,"irrelevant"

But if you insist, I'll repeat my self to reinforce MY POINT, "wider is better for both, independent or not." eyes


"I am really smart"
Re: Track Width [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2756338
03/26/20 11:02 PM
03/26/20 11:02 PM
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Grizzly Offline
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda


Spacers are OK if you just want a little bit...like a 1/4”. The problem is they load the bearings and ball joints because of the longer leverage of the wheel being farther out. If you baby the car it’s not a big deal....if you auto cross it it is.

.


work Thought I might go the wheel spacer route to keep it simple.

It would take a bit of Engineering and a competent Welder, but, widening the K-frame an inch is within reason. twocents I share the OP's concern: I don't like the way the wheels are tucked under the car either.

Re: Track Width [Re: Grizzly] #2756482
03/27/20 01:46 PM
03/27/20 01:46 PM
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TC@HP2 Offline
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I'd think longer control arms are easier than re-engineering the k frame. Have QA1 make up a 1" longer lower, use an SPC adjustable upper arm, bolt together, problem solved.

Re: Track Width [Re: TC@HP2] #2756489
03/27/20 02:00 PM
03/27/20 02:00 PM
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jcc Offline
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iagree

But the exact kinematics are unknown, might be better or worse without at least any computer analysis..

I personally would go at least two inches, and use a large dia rim with needed offset, which is my plan.


"I am really smart"
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