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Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2751583
03/13/20 04:22 PM
03/13/20 04:22 PM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Moved the fitting to the top corner of the valve cover and made a couple pulls and oil problem is fixed. Getting ready to get after it.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2751681
03/13/20 09:15 PM
03/13/20 09:15 PM
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biff426 Offline OP
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Valvetrain issues persist have to dig into it. It still wants to float valves and hang valves open. I am thinking solid lifters and T&D rockers. Will be another year before I can get back on it. Lost my Dad last year and it side tracked me and now my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer so my time is limited. This thing may find it's way into the for sale section.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2751682
03/13/20 09:27 PM
03/13/20 09:27 PM
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NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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Sorry to hear of your family issues. When does it start to float? How high are you wanting to spin it? Maybe the lobes are too aggressive?

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2751799
03/14/20 11:25 AM
03/14/20 11:25 AM
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Glendora Ca.
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Just-a-dart Offline
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Originally Posted by biff426
Made a couple light pulls but the puke tank is getting a ton of oil through the vacuum pump. I have the Ritter intake and have the pickup for the vacuum pump coming out of the oil fill. The valve covers are not very friendly for a fitting. Who has ever used a vac pump on one of these and where do you put the fitting. We leaked the engine and it leaks 4% cold so I don't think it's that the engine has blowby. This thing is pushing a bunch of oil in the higher RPMs.


I also use a Ritter intake and a vac pump, very little oil in the tank. I drilled and tapped the manifold just under the oil filler and drilled and tapped the other side of the intake at the passage in the head. I put a tee in the vacuum line and pull from both sides on the engine. This way I cut down on the air speed and it does not pick up as much oil.



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Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: fbs63] #2752004
03/14/20 09:32 PM
03/14/20 09:32 PM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fbs63
Sorry to hear of your family issues. When does it start to float? How high are you wanting to spin it? Maybe the lobes are too aggressive?


It starts around 5400 and just gets worse. Funny thing is it didn't do it on the first couple pulls. Almost like the lifters pumped up. I really think it is still a lifter preload issue. It is so hard to get a really accurate measurement with the way these engines are setup. It sucks adjustable rockers cost so much. The cam is pretty aggressive so it is not helping. With 5 hits and none of them really hard hits all under 6500 it has already scuffed the lash caps pretty bad so it is not happy. The good thing is with the fitting in the valve cover I am getting hardly nothing in the breather tank. The geometry is really not the best after looking at the lash caps the pattern is from bottom to top of the cap. The rocker is srubbing the entire lash cap. The rocker shaft seems like it needs to be shimmed up from the pedestal and it would be better. I would like to turn it 7200-7400. I am not sure how the T&D stuff installs but it would be nice if you could shim the shafts with the T&D setup.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2752068
03/15/20 10:02 AM
03/15/20 10:02 AM
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Personally I think the weight of the extra tall hydraulic lifters hurts. The solid stem 2.18 valve is also a problem. I would get Ti intake valves before trying anything else. Either Ti intake or a Double spring around 180 on the seat. It sounds like the cam is lofting the lifter.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: fbs63] #2752095
03/15/20 11:19 AM
03/15/20 11:19 AM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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I don't see how you can do a double spring with the stock rockers so it looks like double springs and rockers. Piston to valve is really tight on the intake side and I just don't have the room for a Ti valve with the additional margin. I have the valve pockets as deep as they can go. When you start getting away from stock these engines are pretty tricky. I may just sacrifice the power and put a milder cam in it. I just don't have the time to keep going down this road.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2752198
03/15/20 04:04 PM
03/15/20 04:04 PM
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Charleston
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Originally Posted by biff426
I don't see how you can do a double spring with the stock rockers so it looks like double springs and rockers. Piston to valve is really tight on the intake side and I just don't have the room for a Ti valve with the additional margin. I have the valve pockets as deep as they can go. When you start getting away from stock these engines are pretty tricky. I may just sacrifice the power and put a milder cam in it. I just don't have the time to keep going down this road.


I would assume Craig @Thitek simply specs a beed lock groove lower on the stem to run a double spring retainer that works with stock rockers.

Even the 2.16 valve that Thitek uses is extremely heavy compared to stock Apache valve


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Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: sixpackgut] #2772941
05/09/20 05:38 PM
05/09/20 05:38 PM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Mocked new rockers up today. Pulled the $750 lifters apart to get some slugs made to make them solid. I am still on the fence with the double spring deal. Looks like there is plenty of room on this new rocker to do a double spring. Of course I need to buy yet another set of pushrods.

Roller rockers 1.jpgRoller rockers 2.jpg
Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2773084
05/10/20 08:57 AM
05/10/20 08:57 AM
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fbs63 Offline
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Did you test the seat and open pressures of those springs? Its possible to get a bad batch. I had some Manley NexTek that were bad.

Last edited by fbs63; 05/10/20 08:58 AM.
Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: fbs63] #2773119
05/10/20 10:32 AM
05/10/20 10:32 AM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fbs63
Did you test the seat and open pressures of those springs? Its possible to get a bad batch. I had some Manley NexTek that were bad.


We tested the springs and they are pretty much spot on 140 on the seat and 400 at max lift. I am thinking about going to the hollow stem valve maybe. They are like 12 grams lighter. I am not sure about 400 open with hollow valves. Or just doing a dual spring. The problem is I can't seem to find all the pieces (locks, Retainers) that will work with the spring diameter I think I need. I have 3/8 heavy wall pushrods in it and the lifters are heavy. I have always been told the weight on the cam side of the rocker is not a big factor. I would really like to get some input from someone who has run this 2.18 valve over 7000 RPM I can't be the first person to do this. I don't have ANY piston to valve to put a thick margin titanium valve in it. Options are limited on these things. If anyone has any input I am all ears.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2773390
05/11/20 06:53 AM
05/11/20 06:53 AM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline
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Those Harland Sharp Rockers? I have the T & D's and they don't look like that. I'm not running a 2.18 Intake, but I am close, running a Steel 2.165. Don't know the weight but I've routinely spun my motor to 8000 every pass for years with the only issue of trying to get a 3rd season on a set of shimmed solid Hyd. Lifters. One of the Plastic Retainers started getting sloppy and a Lifter was trying to rotate and hurt the Lobe. I also had 3 others where the Roller Needle Bearings were not smooth when spun with your finger. I never noticed any issues when lashing valves or post race inspections. And in fact, it ran it's fastest passes with the hurt lifter and cam. Again, I was going on my 3rd season with them and never inspected them in the off season. Had I been smart and ripped the Heads off to inspect the LIfters, I would have caught it. I will NEVER do that again!! Take it from me, every off season, Rip the Heads off and inspect or better yet, replace the Lifters and the Guides. Cheap insurance. For Spring, I run the Pac 1237X Dbl. Valve Spring on my Thiteks. Next time I have the Heads freshened up, I'm going to go larger on the Intake Valve and change material to Ti. I've also switched to Jesel Dogbone Lifters. I won't be shimming Lifters solid anymore.


Last edited by STEFF; 05/11/20 06:54 AM.
Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: STEFF] #2773446
05/11/20 10:32 AM
05/11/20 10:32 AM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Hey Steff
Yes they are Harland Sharps after talking to them a few times I decided to go with their rockers. I was going to shim the lifters I have but what is the deal with the Jesel lifters. Do you need to machine the block to use them? I really didn't want to disassemble the short block. I am thinking I need some more spring but I think Craig uses a custom valve with the lock grooves moved around, these heads from Frankenstein have Manley valves and with a dual spring retainer the valve tip is pretty low in the retainer and it is real sketchy with clearance to the rocker.

Last edited by biff426; 05/11/20 10:32 AM.
Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2773489
05/11/20 12:12 PM
05/11/20 12:12 PM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline
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They make a Dogbone style Lifter with a Steel Guide, They are a Bolt-in in the Block. However, you will need longer pushrods (about 1 1/2" longer) and also have to check pushrod clearance in the head, thru the travel of the valve. The Pushrod Seat in the Lifter is just above the Roller, so it is deep into the Lifter. The reason behind it is to reduce the side load on the Lifter with the seat being deep in the Lifter body, versus being at the top of a stock lifter. Only bad thing about them is cost. They're about $210-230ish per Lifter plus the cost of the Guides at about $330ish for the kit. I lucked out and scored a perfect, low use, used set for a lot less than new. Otherwise I wouldn't have them. Another plus side is they are rebuildable.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: STEFF] #2773505
05/11/20 01:02 PM
05/11/20 01:02 PM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Thanks Steff yeah for $4000 I think I'll shim a couple sets of lifters. I have seen the factory plastic holders break on stock engines it's a sham no one makes a drop in solid lifter with a better retainer.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: biff426] #2773518
05/11/20 01:37 PM
05/11/20 01:37 PM
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USA
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Would these work?

89256478_3049491778467970_4382177865370697728_n.jpg
Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2773775
05/12/20 08:37 AM
05/12/20 08:37 AM
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NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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Very Nice! Who makes those? Don't get the logo.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: fbs63] #2773815
05/12/20 10:17 AM
05/12/20 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fbs63
Very Nice! Who makes those? Don't get the logo.


Hi Bob,

If you go to facebook and contact Erik Storms he sells them.

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2773983
05/12/20 08:20 PM
05/12/20 08:20 PM
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NW Indiana
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Thanks!

Re: 420 going on the dyno next couple days [Re: fbs63] #2791038
06/30/20 03:10 PM
06/30/20 03:10 PM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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OK shimmed the lifters solid, put the HS rockers on. Valve train issues are gone!!!!! Made 751HP at 6900 and 602LBFT at 5400. Everything is happy and this thing is going in the car. I was really hoping to make closer to 800HP but I think to get another 50HP is going to take getting a little crazy with things. I am not willing to spend anymore on this deal. Hopefully I can get the car together by the end of the season and make some hits to backup these numbers.

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