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Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? #2747413
02/28/20 03:22 PM
02/28/20 03:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,096
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline OP
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline OP
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Bend,OR USA
I'm having issues on my bracket motors (Two) getting above 5.0 inches of vacuum with a big GZ vacuum pump help
The current motor is better than the one before it but not any where near 10+ inches, any things I should look for?
I bought the pump used several years ago and sent it back to GZ for repair or rebuilding as needed, they called yesterday and said it tested good confused
The current motor has a early Hamburger SS oil pan with the lower kick out in it with the drag link hole removed and covered up for more volume at a lower level. I put 11 quarts in it to get it on the tip of dip stick.
I'm sure it has a tiny pin hole in it some where as it will weep, seep, some oil onto the pan when it sits all winter, no weeping or seeping during the race season though confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2747417
02/28/20 03:34 PM
02/28/20 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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HardcoreB  Offline
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Shelby Twp. Mi
Respectfully, you have a leak larger than just a pin-hole. You should have no problem pulling OVER 10" at speed with that pump with NO TRICKS. Check the valley area for leaks. pressurize the crankcase 3 to 5psi max and bubble check via snoop.

Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: HardcoreB] #2747423
02/28/20 03:42 PM
02/28/20 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269
Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline
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markz528  Offline
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Posts: 4,269
Morrow, OH
So the way that I found my leak points was with a UE2000 ultrasonic leak detector. I borrowed it from work.

What I ultimately found was that I had a bad seal in the Indy valley tray. The vacuum pump had sucked in a portion of the RTV sealing the valley tray. Actually happened twice and I missed it with a visual inspection.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: markz528] #2747493
02/28/20 07:02 PM
02/28/20 07:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Cap your dip stick... they normally leak vac
wave

Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2747502
02/28/20 07:30 PM
02/28/20 07:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,096
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline OP
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Cab_Burge  Offline OP
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Bend,OR USA
It is plug off with a vacuum cap and sealed up tight with a screw on hose clamp up
I'm going to look into trying to pressure test it and look for air leaks with soapy water luck


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2747506
02/28/20 07:44 PM
02/28/20 07:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440 Offline
super stock
sr4440  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
before i had a large electric vacuum pump, I had a old 1/4hp electric motor that used a long belt to drive the vacuum pump. I prefer to pull a vacuum to find a vacuum leak because i once had a relief valve that sealed great under pressure but would open up at 4in of vacuum. The owner said it was all sealed up because he had pressurized it and it didn't leak. smile


Joe


Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: sr4440] #2747529
02/28/20 08:39 PM
02/28/20 08:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
I run the same pump. It''ll makeover 5hg at idle. By adding air too the crank case (about 3psi) the biggest leak found was at the corners of the Indy valley tray/head gasket. I now add a little RTV at the top corners of the head gaskets during installation. Each side about a 1/4" down from the valley junction.
Doug

Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: dvw] #2747537
02/28/20 08:56 PM
02/28/20 08:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,629
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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rickseeman  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,629
Stuttgart, Arkansas
Ray Barton told me to silicone the harmonic balancer keyway.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2747547
02/28/20 09:18 PM
02/28/20 09:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 89
Cedar Rapids, IA
6
69Mcode440 Offline
member
69Mcode440  Offline
member
6

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 89
Cedar Rapids, IA
Make sure the valve covers and any oil fillers are sealed with an o ring.

Mike


Mike
69 440 Cuda
71 Dart drag car
70 Duster drag car Best et 9.32, 145.9 mph
2019 Ram 2500 4x4
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: rickseeman] #2747548
02/28/20 09:18 PM
02/28/20 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 174
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hustlin hoosier Offline
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If you look at some of the old pictures of our engines built by best , you will see toe clamps from the head to the valley cover along each side. We had no luck until then . We even built 1/2 inch thick billet valley covers with no success. Pressurizing is a waste of time as the forces are reversed.

Last edited by hustlin hoosier; 02/28/20 09:21 PM.
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: hustlin hoosier] #2747568
02/28/20 10:08 PM
02/28/20 10:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,491
PA
moparacer Offline
top fuel
moparacer  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,491
PA
I do nothing special to my engines at all and pull 12 inches with the Star Standard pump. Mine Idles at 5 on alky.


67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: moparacer] #2747573
02/28/20 10:30 PM
02/28/20 10:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,484
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Leak test? Anyone use a smoke machine?


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: CMcAllister] #2747585
02/28/20 10:59 PM
02/28/20 10:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 873
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 873
Missouri
I had issues with getting a lot of oil in the puke tank between runs, so I pressurized the crankcase with a smoke machine, it showed the rear main seal leaking and a small leak on the oil pan rail. And fixing those issues helped. But the bottom line was, how much engine blow by does the engine have? If you have more crankcase pressure from leaking rings, than the pump can handle, it will not pull any vacuum. I used a simple blowby tester that went into the valve cover , and it told the tale.

Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: CMcAllister] #2747648
02/29/20 07:35 AM
02/29/20 07:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
Smoke machine will work. The air test with soapy water works excellent. The only thing it may miss is if a shaft seal is being pulled back away under vacuum.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 02/29/20 07:36 AM.
Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: dvw] #2747671
02/29/20 09:34 AM
02/29/20 09:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,508
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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340Cuda  Offline
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Posts: 3,508
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I have one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/AutoLine-Pro-Automotive-Diagnostic-SMK-1/dp/B06XHRBKTM/ref=sr_1_7?crid=368A71NJQ8X0Q&keywords=smoke+machine&qid=1582983126&s=automotive&sprefix=smoke+m%2Caps%2C182&sr=1-7

I have always been able to find all my vacuum leaks with it.

Good Luck!

Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: dvw] #2747673
02/29/20 09:48 AM
02/29/20 09:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,834
NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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Posts: 1,834
NW Indiana
Install the rear main and timing cover seals reversed. Use RightStuff sparingly on the sealing surfaces of the rear main seal cap. Fill the voids of the stock style seal cap with RightStuff. As stated seal the upper ends of the head gaskets with RightStuff. Seal the crank key. If the block has side bolted mains chamfer the holes and use an o-ring under the washer. Make sure the 0-ring fit for the distributor is tight. Pressure test with no more than 5psi and soapy water in a spray bottle. There are 2 nitrous motors out that we had to put vacuum regulators on that were sealed like this.

Re: Motor sealing tricks for making vacuum in the crankcase? [Re: fbs63] #2748629
03/03/20 03:31 PM
03/03/20 03:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
451Guy Offline
mopar
451Guy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
I smoked mine a couple of years ago and the smoke was pouring out of the rear main seal area. I took it apart and attempted to reseal it. It is better but I can still not make any vacuum. I have the star set up. I eventually removed it and put the pan evacs back on. I was sick of it blowing oil out of their fancy $400.00 catch can!


Thanx 451 Guy

512 cu in 71 Demon Super Street Car - NO LONGER - Broke Crank
Best ET 9.57 @ 139.96

451 cu in Pump Gas - 71 Demon Super Street Car
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