Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: AndyF]
#2747723
02/29/20 12:48 PM
02/29/20 12:48 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566 Texas
RustyM
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566
Texas
|
Thanks Andy. I tune a bb mopar for index racing and we have Very High humidity and heat here, 400 ft above sea level tracks will have Da's at 2500-3200 ft with 115 to 25 grains of water per cubic ft of air in june, july, august.is: Im looking for a way or, ways to offset the hp loss on cars that cannot run nitrous, blowers, turbos etc Oxygenated fuels sure look good on paper for accomplishing that and, when i again spoke with Vp fuels yesterday, they make it sound simple /easy yada, yada. However, i keep reading accounts much like your own .
Any ideas at all for problem solving for oxygen loss in atmosphere or, ideas on running a different fuel etc>
What i have been doing, which has helped, but not cured , is: a little more timing on those days, keeping engine on the lean side and afr's really tight across the rpm range, running as cool an engine temp as we can. I haven't found an effective way as yet to actually chill fuel all the way through the system , which would help or, really cool carb/intake . If i could get the fuel cool enough , i think that would help quite a bit, but that solution alludes me- whoever figures it out will likely become wealthy- grin.
I had really hoped the q16 was a viable answer but, doesn't seem to be the case at this level of racing ( high 9, low 10 1/4 or, 6.30-40 1/8 cars ). Btw, around here, you basically need to run at least a tenth under your index in good weather to be able to get on index in or summer weather. Im simply trying to tighten up that window as much as possible.
Any help/suggestions are appreciated.
P.S. VP Fuels say they have the "fuel system destruction" issues resolved, was a particular additive reaction but, it does pull moisture .
Last edited by RustyM; 02/29/20 12:50 PM.
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2747777
02/29/20 03:52 PM
02/29/20 03:52 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
|
I don’t know why anyone running that slow would even consider running Q16. Man that stuff is crazy expensive.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2747779
02/29/20 04:02 PM
02/29/20 04:02 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
Every combo is different.......
Mid-800hp 468” SBC with 14:1 running a single carb and 18* heads. Baseline motor on C16, switch to Q16, and rejet ...... 35hp more. 850 up to 885.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: Sammy]
#2747958
03/01/20 10:28 AM
03/01/20 10:28 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia
dthemi
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
|
I've ran Q in several different applications. In every case it made more power NA. From 12:1 to 16.5:1. In every one of them the same tuning logic applied. More fuel, and more timing. In 2 different single 4 combos I just never could get enough fuel up top to see where it would end.
There are 2 blends of Q16, and the regular mix is the better one imo. The other is ETBE, not MTBE. The MTBE is a better fuel despite what VP says about it. Had both on the dyno back, to back. The ETBE blend hit the wall and just went fatter with less power. The MTBE (reg) just kept asking for more fuel, and timing. I have no idea if that's the only difference in the 2 fuels.
When I've seen folks try it at the track (mostly single 4), and see little to no improvement, it's hard to say, but judging from what I've experienced, it's too little fuel, and too little timing. VP recommends a reduction in timing, but that has never once worked for me. The last one that I helped a friend with at the track went from 96 main jets in a 1250 to 106 with a high speed air bleed reduction from .031 to.028 and it was still picking up mph. Added 3 degrees timing too.
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: dthemi]
#2747967
03/01/20 10:50 AM
03/01/20 10:50 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
Here’s my take on it in Rusty’s situation......
It just comes down to $$$, and how bad you really want to know what it’ll do in that particular application..... at that time of the season.
If you want to know bad enough....... pull the motor when you’re getting into that part of the season and head to the dyno. Baseline the motor with the current fuel and tune...... swap to the Q16, and start tuning.......and see what you can get out of it.
After you’ve gotten the tune for the new fuel dialed in, and if it picked up enough power to make it worth track testing....... see what happens in the car.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: RustyM]
#2747988
03/01/20 11:54 AM
03/01/20 11:54 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
|
I've built and tune a few carbs on Q-16 which are anywhere from 12.1/2 compression to just a bit past 15.1 and they all picked up but in your scenario I'd try the VP-101 oxy fuel I run or the VP-113 for even better performance. The idea that you just jet up 10 #'s is totally wrong from what I've seen and the carbs I built had every passage slightly increased in size to add volume as well as enrichment including smaller idle bleeds and bigger ifr's for starters............I wouldn't waste the $$ or time on that toxic crap on your deal........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2748039
03/01/20 03:33 PM
03/01/20 03:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
|
We ran it for years in a nss car that ran a 9.0 index. What we found was that right out of the trailer in am to late night racing et never changed more than a couple of hundredth and engine temp never went higher than 160 no matter outside temp. Never gained any more power.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: RustyM]
#2748258
03/02/20 11:04 AM
03/02/20 11:04 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
Of course, if you’re index racing..... and can’t run the number when the weather gets unfriendly...... there’s always going “old school”.
Just hop the combo up and back into the index with tuning, weight, shift points, mechanical throttle stop, etc.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2748260
03/02/20 11:20 AM
03/02/20 11:20 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
|
I have run Q16 since it came out. Jet up and imo START at 10% more jet. You will likely need more than that and likely need some HS bleed changes, also some emulsion tuning. Q is a VERY forgiving fuel with an exceptionally wide tuning window. It also is extremely consistent across a wider range of weather conditions. I have NEVER tried it in an engine and NOT seen a gain. Also as Darren pointed out C85 is another great alternative for you. We ran it in our dragster for a couple years playing with E85. The C85 picked the car up a couple tenths and worked very well. We now run Q in both cars. BTW there is an even more oxygenated fuel out there than Q, C45 and we run it in the Vette. It is not very forgiving and has a VERY NARROW tuning window. But when its right nothing can touch it, but when its qwrong, especially fat wrong waive goodbye to your rings....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2748330
03/02/20 03:02 PM
03/02/20 03:02 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566 Texas
RustyM
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566
Texas
|
Yea , If i can get him to 6.31 he should be able to run 6.41 all year, backing in during spring and late fall and on the number during the bad months. The index here is 6.25, 6.41, 6.72 . Really too fast to back up to the .72 , I put 200 lbs , pulled throttle out and reduced timing, wanted to run .60 all day- had to race the stripe. So, kinda trapped between indexes in the worst /most of the season. I get generally get a .43-.45 out of it in the heat, i just need that itsy bit more- grin As soon as we get a new block for it , top end goes to you for porting/cam selection and this will get easier . We are working towards the plan you presented , he just wants to get an aftermarket block first as we realize this one is playing with fire , as you pointed out .
|
|
|
Re: VP- Q16 N/A?
[Re: RustyM]
#2748425
03/02/20 09:59 PM
03/02/20 09:59 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
|
Pittsburgh: I know its expensive but, if it will give us 2-3 hundredths in the heat for a few races , that will meaning winning more. We made the finals more times than not last year and either having to race the stripe too much or, being .02 slow - neither worked well against good index racers. Just need a tiny bit of help until we get the new block to build from.
Hey! Slow is relative ! At my age, im daily surprised at what seems fast! hahahaha Call APD and get an alcohol carb. A drum of alcohol is right around 160.00 dollars for 54 gallons. I paid under 600.00 to convert my carb and pricing is on their website. Great company to deal with.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
|
|