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Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: pittsburghracer] #2722424
12/07/19 11:08 PM
12/07/19 11:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

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Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
It means if they're factory stock there's a difference, due EPA restrictions.
IMO, If you build either with premium parts I don't think .040" more bore is going to be a much of difference.


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2722495
12/08/19 11:06 AM
12/08/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4
4406bbl Offline
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Nebraska
Originally Posted by ou812
Until you sonic test a 340 and realize they can be paper thin!


THIS!! I have sonic checked 3 360 magnum blocks and the thinnest thrust was .190, down low close to the mains. along with the roller cam, .020 shorter deck, and the fact that the deck on all 3 was square within .003. The oil passages to mains and pump are also already big, no need to do that step. 4" steel crank and eagle h-beams go in with a small eyebrow notch. Only bad thing I found was main bore diameter being to the high side of spec, but still in spec. Even the chevy machinists commented how well machined, and thick they are compared to a chevy.

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: STEFF] #2722555
12/08/19 02:14 PM
12/08/19 02:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
super stock
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Missouri
back when I was in high school, 1974, my first mopar was a 1970 340 4 speed dart. I had a buddy that had a 71 340 automatic duster and his brother had a 1972 duster with a 360 4 speed, we drag raced on HwyY just outside of town and I could always beat the 340 auto by a car length, the 360 duster just depended on what side of the road I got, we were neck and neck. I currently have a 69 cuda with a 408 stoked 360 with a procharger, 4 speed and man is it fun to drive. Have built several of the 360/408 engines for others and they all really like them. With the reasonable stroker kits today, a 350 or 340 is really a mute point, unless you are restoring for numbers correct vehicles.

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: jwb123] #2722562
12/08/19 02:54 PM
12/08/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Romeo MI
All I own are 340s(4 of them now but always looking for more)
wave

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: jwb123] #2722572
12/08/19 04:09 PM
12/08/19 04:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
master
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Auburn WA
Originally Posted by jwb123
back when I was in high school, 1974, my first mopar was a 1970 340 4 speed dart. I had a buddy that had a 71 340 automatic duster and his brother had a 1972 duster with a 360 4 speed, we drag raced on HwyY just outside of town and I could always beat the 340 auto by a car length, the 360 duster just depended on what side of the road I got, we were neck and neck. I currently have a 69 cuda with a 408 stoked 360 with a procharger, 4 speed and man is it fun to drive. Have built several of the 360/408 engines for others and they all really like them. With the reasonable stroker kits today, a 350 or 340 is really a mute point, unless you are restoring for numbers correct vehicles.

I have seen so many dead stock 340 Darts go head to head with 360 Darts and it was always so close, mostly driver. From my observation, the 340 cars would 60 foot the 360 cars but the 360 cars had more MPH in the top end.

But I bet if your buddy with the 340 Auto had yanked that A727 and put in a good shift kit'ed A904 it would have been a whole different outcome. wink

With no other changes, my 1979 Cop car 360 E58 in a 66 Dart Wagon with the A727 that came with the engine, the A727 was going south so I put my TransGo shift kitted 1978 LeBarron A904 in it with just the trans and driveshft changes and that Dart wagon came alive.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: 1Fast340] #2722577
12/08/19 04:37 PM
12/08/19 04:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
master
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St. Paul , Mn.
Originally Posted by 1Fast340
This topic is a failure unless we start considering the pinionangle. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fan.gif" alt="" />


Five year old wisdom , and it is still tough to argue. laugh2

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: 4406bbl] #2722597
12/08/19 05:57 PM
12/08/19 05:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 129
SE Indiana
K
kowalski440 Offline
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Posts: 129
SE Indiana
And ironically enough, they were made and machined in Mexico (the 360 Magnum blocks)!
Originally Posted by 4406bbl
Originally Posted by ou812
Until you sonic test a 340 and realize they can be paper thin!


THIS!! I have sonic checked 3 360 magnum blocks and the thinnest thrust was .190, down low close to the mains. along with the roller cam, .020 shorter deck, and the fact that the deck on all 3 was square within .003. The oil passages to mains and pump are also already big, no need to do that step. 4" steel crank and eagle h-beams go in with a small eyebrow notch. Only bad thing I found was main bore diameter being to the high side of spec, but still in spec. Even the chevy machinists commented how well machined, and thick they are compared to a chevy.

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: W.I.N. Racing] #2722765
12/09/19 03:35 PM
12/09/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 419
montana
BANDIT Offline
mopar
BANDIT  Offline
mopar

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Posts: 419
montana
Only in Vegas.

E62411EF-A22C-4D36-8C69-11893606D371.jpeg

64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress
1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA
250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183.
4600 DA
242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: J_BODY] #2723089
12/10/19 09:28 PM
12/10/19 09:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
R
Ray408G3Hemi Offline
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R

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
Originally Posted by J_BODY
360 wasn’t nothing but a truck motor....

[Linked Image]



forgive this Ford guys , lack of SBM knowledge , but the 2 lines running to the valve covers,........Oil to the rocker shaft ?


1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress)
1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE
1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph
1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA
1996 Viper GTS
2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor
2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA
2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA
2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: Ray408G3Hemi] #2723101
12/10/19 10:18 PM
12/10/19 10:18 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 259
n.c.
G
geo. Offline
enthusiast
geo.  Offline
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n.c.
Originally Posted by Ray408G3Hemi
Originally Posted by J_BODY
360 wasn’t nothing but a truck motor....

[Linked Image]



forgive this Ford guys , lack of SBM knowledge , but the 2 lines running to the valve covers,........Oil to the rocker shaft ?


Looks like a nascar "truck" motor, probably oil spray rails to cool the valve springs.

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: STEFF] #2745405
02/22/20 08:57 AM
02/22/20 08:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 169
orange city,FL
D
Demon340GSS Offline
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orange city,FL
Originally Posted by STEFF
Pull this topic out of mothballs!! This is an oldie but goodie topic that used to get plenty of blood boiling!! 340 based Small Blocks will always reign supreme as the Tru HiPo Small Block, Where as the 360 based Small Blocks were nothing but 340 Wannabe's!!

Let the fight begin!!

I agree!!!
I have owned and raced 42 different small block Chryslers so far. In my opinion the 340 is better if its the 67 to early 72 motors for the forged crank, Higher rpm more reliably Better heads from the factory. Higher compression Pistons, on and on...
,
The cast crank 340's are the same as all the 360 4 barrel motors and hard to tell when racing stock ver stock.
But in racing if you change everything around the 360s are a dime a dozen and if you blow it up the stuff is easy to find. The 340's are desired for doing restorations and racing.
If mopar had been smart and offered in stock form a 360 with a factory forged crank then I would buy them.
You go ahead and bring your 360 powered car around and make my 340 motor match the same and I will show you why the 340 is better. ( same cam, Same heads, Same intake/carb etc and I will out rev you. Out horsepower you, and beat you to the end of the track.
The 340 X, U, O heads all are 2.02 intake valve sized.
The 360 heads only came with 188 valves.
Sure you can upgrade?
and that is another reason why the early 340's rule in drag racing.
The only reason the 360 motors are so popular as most cant find a 340 instead.
Emissions and Cost was why the 360 stayed.
Performance was not much of a though at mopar anymore.
Fuel crunch and fuel embargo's caused it.
in my humble and educated opinion.
Grant Eaton


Owner of Original collector and restored original mopars from Mr Norms Grand Spaulding Dodge.
Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: Demon340GSS] #2745523
02/22/20 04:12 PM
02/22/20 04:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,387
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
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Fulton County, PA
I much prefer the smaller main bearing bores/smaller crank. The rod ratio was an advantage, even with the resulting shorter stroke. The early, thick wall block is the one to use if you can find one.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: geo.] #2745636
02/22/20 10:24 PM
02/22/20 10:24 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,171
aZLiViN
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J_BODY Offline
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aZLiViN
Originally Posted by geo.
Originally Posted by Ray408G3Hemi
Originally Posted by J_BODY
360 wasn’t nothing but a truck motor....

[Linked Image]



forgive this Ford guys , lack of SBM knowledge , but the 2 lines running to the valve covers,........Oil to the rocker shaft ?


Looks like a nascar "truck" motor, probably oil spray rails to cool the valve springs.


Revamped for dry lake bed racing.... yes, spray oiling for the valve springs. Not sure what I’m going to do with it. Supposedly 11 dyno pulls on it.

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: J_BODY] #2745642
02/22/20 10:57 PM
02/22/20 10:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,784
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
Bigger main diameter creates more over lap between the rod and main journals making the crank is stronger.That makes the cast crank a pretty decent piece. The stock heads are all pretty much a wash except for intake valve size. The stock 360 lacks compression and cam. However the magnum has the roller advantage and better head. I've run al of them. To be honest I really see no advantage with the 340 except the bore is a little bigger. The magnum blocks have far better machining from the factory. If its getting rebuilt the the pistons and cam are getting swapped anyway so who cares. As far as cast crank strenth? We make well over 800 with a factory 360 crank. I currently have a 340, 360, and a big block. Any body that thinks just because they have a 340 or a 360 and that's the difference if its quick or not makes me wonder.
Doug

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: dvw] #2745667
02/23/20 02:22 AM
02/23/20 02:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
master
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Auburn WA
Dead bone stock yes a 340 crushes the 360, on paper.

Any one that thinks a 1978 Little Red Express only had a MAX of 225 HP, can I call you stupid and get away with it?

Mid 1980's I had a 1965 Dart GT. I put a 1974 4bb 360 HP in it with the only mods done was a 'True deck' milled the block 0.020", a 340 Resto cam and a Weian aluminum intake. I used 340 Iron exhaust manifolds. A727 with TransGo shift kit. 8 /34 with 3.91:1 SG 225/60 14 tires. I had a Heath Kit CD ignition triggered by my Prestolite Dual Point.

My buddy had a 1964 Valiant 2 door. He had a stock 340 from a Duster. Mallory YL dual point dizzy. He also used the 340 iron manifolds. A727. 8 3/4 with 4.10 SG but he ran a taller 235/65 14 tire.

We weighed within 35 pounds with us in the cars, mine was heavier.

Best 3-4 out of 5 he would beat me by a door.... until I put a set of 2.02" X heads that had been milled a bit. 5 out of 5 I'd win. Yes he 60 footed me every time but I'd run him down between 1000' and 1320' marks.

The only way he could beat me was by removing the passenger and back seats and the front bumper. wink I raced with my spare tire and jack in the trunk.

Many runs at test and tune nights at Seattle International Raceway.

Last edited by Dave_J; 02/23/20 02:51 AM.

Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: Dave_J] #2745724
02/23/20 11:43 AM
02/23/20 11:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
I still use 340s ONLY... they rev and I use rpm
wave

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2745833
02/23/20 06:26 PM
02/23/20 06:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,784
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
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Posts: 9,784
MI, usa
With good parts anything will rev. Heck they run BAE Hemis well over 9000rpm with 4.375 stroke.
Doug

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: dvw] #2745840
02/23/20 06:52 PM
02/23/20 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,184
ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 2,184
ILLINOIS
cant find a 340 to save my life. 360s are all over the place.

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2745842
02/23/20 06:53 PM
02/23/20 06:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,677
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 11,677
W. Kentucky
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
I still use 340s ONLY... they rev and I use rpm
wave


Didn't you use a 4" crank in the rampage?

Re: 340's Rule, 360's Drool !! [Re: justinp61] #2745850
02/23/20 07:27 PM
02/23/20 07:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
I still use 340s ONLY... they rev and I use rpm
wave


Didn't you use a 4" crank in the rampage?



Yes its a 4.00 crank but still a 340 block... this is the first 4.00 crank I've used... I like it
wave

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