Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2742848
02/14/20 01:14 PM
02/14/20 01:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I had a motor with an overlapped oil control spacer once. It wore a vertical line in the cylinder much deeper than that. Do a leak down test on all the cylinders, and see if that one is sealed well or not.
If it has the same leak down rate, you could keep running it and see if it gets worse. Or, you could always pull that side's head, pull the piston out, find out what is going on there, scuff the bore with a scuff pad to de-glaze it and put a fresh set of rings in it.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2742879
02/14/20 03:26 PM
02/14/20 03:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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⁷ That groove appears to be deeper than I like so I would pull the motor apart to find out what is going on in that cylinder to find out what is causing that Groove? Its not any grooves to talk about i belive, if you zooming the first picture on the vertical black line you can see the cross hatching through the black carbon, it looks like you have drag a pencill on the cylinder wall. Possible a sharp edge on a ring that scratch a little that allows a little build up with carbon or something, its also carbon in a little wider span not just in that particular vertical line. I was jus courious what makes it be there.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2742886
02/14/20 03:48 PM
02/14/20 03:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Mopar493
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That groove appears to be deeper than I like so I would pull the motor apart to find out what is going on in that cylinder to find out what is causing that See on this zoomed pictures, it looks almost like black clay have been smear on the cylinder wall and its not lookes like a scratch its looks like something has come in between and been smear
Last edited by Mopar493; 02/14/20 03:51 PM.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2742895
02/14/20 04:07 PM
02/14/20 04:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Mopar493
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The scratch is allowing the carbon to settle in the groove I use file to fit ring sets in all the motors I build (1000s+) and I use a small hand sharpening stone to deburr the ends of the rings on all four sides and now and then I still will see some of those lines in the cylinder walls while assembling them When I do I make sure there are no sharp corners with burrs in those rings Those scratches will stay in the cylinder walls for a while, if it does not use oil and it has a good compression test or and leak down test then run it Thank you for your answer! I was so extremely meticulous when i file this rings and also deburr them as you say but i must have miss one burr anyway then😥 but i not think it is any problem, i havent notice anything anyway but i will do a compression test and see if there is any variation in pressure, have not notice any use of oil in 400 miles and the sparkplug and top of the piston is clean
Last edited by Mopar493; 02/14/20 04:14 PM.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2742972
02/14/20 08:28 PM
02/14/20 08:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I'm doing winter testing on my bracket motor now, it leaked down to 70/80 on the worst cylinder and 78/80 on the best cylinder, three plugs where clean and two had noticeable amount of oil on them I had ran it in neutral several times to warm it up for setting the valve lash, three needed a tiny bit of tightening, several needed loosening up and 5 or 6 where okay. I set them at .022 warmed up this time and I will write that down in the racing log book for this year I'm not sure exactly where I had set them last year I run pump E85 fuel in this motor, it has right at 15.0 to 1 compression ratio with real narrow rings(1MM) with low tension oil rings for the vacuum pump. I had the crankshaft bolt come loose on the last run last year and it and the pulley came off during a run so the motor has been ran since then without the pump. I'm sending the pump in for checking and rebuilding if needed, that is probably the reason for the oil on some of the plugs It hadn't had any sign of oil on any of the plugs I've checked or change at the track last year with the pump working Hopefully this years results will be better
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/14/20 08:29 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2743064
02/15/20 02:34 AM
02/15/20 02:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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I'm doing winter testing on my bracket motor now, it leaked down to 70/80 on the worst cylinder and 78/80 on the best cylinder, three plugs where clean and two had noticeable amount of oil on them I had ran it in neutral several times to warm it up for setting the valve lash, three needed a tiny bit of tightening, several needed loosening up and 5 or 6 where okay. I set them at .022 warmed up this time and I will write that down in the racing log book for this year I'm not sure exactly where I had set them last year I run pump E85 fuel in this motor, it has right at 15.0 to 1 compression ratio with real narrow rings(1MM) with low tension oil rings for the vacuum pump. I had the crankshaft bolt come loose on the last run last year and it and the pulley came off during a run so the motor has been ran since then without the pump. I'm sending the pump in for checking and rebuilding if needed, that is probably the reason for the oil on some of the plugs It hadn't had any sign of oil on any of the plugs I've checked or change at the track last year with the pump working Hopefully this years results will be better Thanks alot for your answer! Im going to do a leak down test and get back with results.
Last edited by Mopar493; 02/15/20 08:37 AM.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2743128
02/15/20 10:46 AM
02/15/20 10:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,496 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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Is this a drag race engine? Do you make runs with no air filter? The third picture looks like dirt may have got in there as there are numerous vertical scratches in that cylinder wall.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2743161
02/15/20 12:12 PM
02/15/20 12:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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I'm doing winter testing on my bracket motor now, it leaked down to 70/80 on the worst cylinder and 78/80 on the best cylinder, three plugs where clean and two had noticeable amount of oil on them I had ran it in neutral several times to warm it up for setting the valve lash, three needed a tiny bit of tightening, several needed loosening up and 5 or 6 where okay. I set them at .022 warmed up this time and I will write that down in the racing log book for this year I'm not sure exactly where I had set them last year I run pump E85 fuel in this motor, it has right at 15.0 to 1 compression ratio with real narrow rings(1MM) with low tension oil rings for the vacuum pump. I had the crankshaft bolt come loose on the last run last year and it and the pulley came off during a run so the motor has been ran since then without the pump. I'm sending the pump in for checking and rebuilding if needed, that is probably the reason for the oil on some of the plugs It hadn't had any sign of oil on any of the plugs I've checked or change at the track last year with the pump working Hopefully this years results will be better Thanks alot for your answer! Im going to do a leak down test and get back with results. Hello again, i have leak down test the particular cylinder and i get 7% in the particular cylinder and also in the other 7 cylinders so i belive its all good👍👍
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2743164
02/15/20 12:18 PM
02/15/20 12:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Mopar493
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Is this a drag race engine? Do you make runs with no air filter? The third picture looks like dirt may have got in there as there are numerous vertical scratches in that cylinder wall. No its a street engine and i belive it comes from the pretty ruff cross hatch when the rings be brooken in and material from the cross hatch edges, just a theory, anyway i did a leak down test and all cylinders show 6-7% so i belive its all good and its looks bader than it really is with the camera angle, light, zoom etc.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2743236
02/15/20 04:37 PM
02/15/20 04:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Sometimes we all imagine the worst things when we first see them Further testing and investigating can help us under stand what is bad and not so bad Yours is good, in my opinion
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2743239
02/15/20 04:54 PM
02/15/20 04:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,496 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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Looking closer those scratches are really uniform and evenly spaced apart like the oil ring scrapers are not holding the center section of the oil ring in place. Maybe that rough crosshatch wore the oil ring scrapers down letting the center section rub more than it should or, one of the scrapers seated above or below the center spacer letting it come out and rub the cylinder wall. Whatever the problem is that oil ring center spacer should not be out against the wall making those marks.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2743418
02/16/20 02:17 AM
02/16/20 02:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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Looking closer those scratches are really uniform and evenly spaced apart like the oil ring scrapers are not holding the center section of the oil ring in place. Maybe that rough crosshatch wore the oil ring scrapers down letting the center section rub more than it should or, one of the scrapers seated above or below the center spacer letting it come out and rub the cylinder wall. Whatever the problem is that oil ring center spacer should not be out against the wall making those marks. Hows that even possible for the oil rings to move around in the cylinder like that when the rings are properly assembled? And belive me they are properly assembled, i have been almost redicoluos meticulous with this engine.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2743419
02/16/20 02:21 AM
02/16/20 02:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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Sometimes we all imagine the worst things when we first see them Further testing and investigating can help us under stand what is bad and not so bad Yours is good, in my opinion Thats true😊👍, thank you for your answers, the leak down test makes me calm and the results not lie, 7% in a cold engine must be really good👍, you could hear the air weawe a little from the oil filler cap during the test.
Last edited by Mopar493; 02/16/20 02:31 AM.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2743495
02/16/20 10:57 AM
02/16/20 10:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,496 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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top fuel
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Looking closer those scratches are really uniform and evenly spaced apart like the oil ring scrapers are not holding the center section of the oil ring in place. Maybe that rough crosshatch wore the oil ring scrapers down letting the center section rub more than it should or, one of the scrapers seated above or below the center spacer letting it come out and rub the cylinder wall. Whatever the problem is that oil ring center spacer should not be out against the wall making those marks. Hows that even possible for the oil rings to move around in the cylinder like that when the rings are properly assembled? And belive me they are properly assembled, i have been almost redicoluos meticulous with this engine. Hey, Just reading what the pic shows. You said all the other cylinders look good and this one has the marks so there's something causing them. I'm sure you installed the rings correctly. We always hear the snapping of the rings as you install the pistons into the cylinders upon assembly, one oil ring scraper could have snapped out of place during the piston installation into the cylinder. That's all it would take.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2743640
02/16/20 04:20 PM
02/16/20 04:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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Looking closer those scratches are really uniform and evenly spaced apart like the oil ring scrapers are not holding the center section of the oil ring in place. Maybe that rough crosshatch wore the oil ring scrapers down letting the center section rub more than it should or, one of the scrapers seated above or below the center spacer letting it come out and rub the cylinder wall. Whatever the problem is that oil ring center spacer should not be out against the wall making those marks. Hows that even possible for the oil rings to move around in the cylinder like that when the rings are properly assembled? And belive me they are properly assembled, i have been almost redicoluos meticulous with this engine. Hey, Just reading what the pic shows. You said all the other cylinders look good and this one has the marks so there's something causing them. I'm sure you installed the rings correctly. We always hear the snapping of the rings as you install the pistons into the cylinders upon assembly, one oil ring scraper could have snapped out of place during the piston installation into the cylinder. That's all it would take. Im greatful for your answer, im just wondering hows it possible and should it not be any recistance when you turning the engine over after assembling the pistons, i remember i check for any additional recistance after each piston been assembled with a torque wrench and when i have all 8 assembled i had 20 ft lbs to start the crank rotate and between 10-15 ft lbs to keep it rotate even through the whole revolution, but maybe the spacer between the oil rings doesnt do much to recistance i dont know but thats how you use to do for check if their is some error, i not record anything strange on the cylinder walls either after turning the crank over and over checking for some recistance during the revolution.
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: Mopar493]
#2743653
02/16/20 04:42 PM
02/16/20 04:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,496 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,496
God's Country Maryland
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Looking closer those scratches are really uniform and evenly spaced apart like the oil ring scrapers are not holding the center section of the oil ring in place. Maybe that rough crosshatch wore the oil ring scrapers down letting the center section rub more than it should or, one of the scrapers seated above or below the center spacer letting it come out and rub the cylinder wall. Whatever the problem is that oil ring center spacer should not be out against the wall making those marks. Hows that even possible for the oil rings to move around in the cylinder like that when the rings are properly assembled? And belive me they are properly assembled, i have been almost redicoluos meticulous with this engine. Hey, Just reading what the pic shows. You said all the other cylinders look good and this one has the marks so there's something causing them. I'm sure you installed the rings correctly. We always hear the snapping of the rings as you install the pistons into the cylinders upon assembly, one oil ring scraper could have snapped out of place during the piston installation into the cylinder. That's all it would take. Im greatful for your answer, im just wondering hows it possible and should it not be any recistance when you turning the engine over after assembling the pistons, i remember i check for any additional recistance after each piston been assembled with a torque wrench and when i have all 8 assembled i had 20 ft lbs to start the crank rotate and between 10-15 ft lbs to keep it rotate even through the whole revolution, but maybe the spacer between the oil rings doesnt do much to recistance i dont know but thats how you use to do for check if their is some error, i not record anything strange on the cylinder walls either after turning the crank over and over checking for some recistance during the revolution. Good luck with your engine. Bye.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Mopar 493 stroker check with endoscope through sparkplug hol
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2743728
02/16/20 08:18 PM
02/16/20 08:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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[quote=Mopar493][quote=GODSCOUNTRY340] We always hear the snapping of the rings as you install the pistons into the cylinders upon assembly, one oil ring scraper could have snapped out of place during the piston installation into the cylinder. That's all it would take. I've never heard about or heard a ring snap when being push into a cylinder, no matter which type of ring compressor Please help us all out on this
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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