Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: Mr T2U]
#2742959
02/14/20 08:01 PM
02/14/20 08:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734
Bitopia
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If one is paying attention to their mirrors, its virtually impossible for one to get into one's blind spot without being noticed.
Unless texting is more important.
I interpret tuning one's head means they are not looking where they are going.
Kinda hard to defend/explain a rear end accident.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: jcc]
#2742962
02/14/20 08:06 PM
02/14/20 08:06 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,330 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,330
nowhere
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If one is paying attention to their mirrors, its virtually impossible for one to get into one's blind spot without being noticed.
Unless texting is more important.
I interpret tuning one's head means they are not looking where they are going.
Kinda hard to defend/explain a rear end accident. If you are following so closely that a quick glance to check your blind spot results in a rear ender you need to not be driving. Checking your blind spots predates texting, by decades. Nice strawman though.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: stumpy]
#2743021
02/14/20 10:42 PM
02/14/20 10:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734
Bitopia
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It takes micro-seconds to turn your head enough to see what's around you. If you run into someone in front of you because you glanced around you were FOLLOWING WAY TO CLOSE. And the reason there are rear end accidents. Merging into tightly spaced interstate traffic, following another car in front takes a lot for granted the person front will not panic at last moment and hit their brakes at the end of the merge lane without any warning. . (60 mph = 66/ft/second, or about the time one takes to a "quick"(?) glance over one's shoulder and judge speed, distance, dynamic positions, and intentions of other cars maybe even looking over their shoulder? ) QED
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: jcc]
#2743073
02/15/20 05:50 AM
02/15/20 05:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,168 A Red State
SNK-EYZ
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,168
A Red State
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It takes micro-seconds to turn your head enough to see what's around you. If you run into someone in front of you because you glanced around you were FOLLOWING WAY TO CLOSE. And the reason there are rear end accidents. Merging into tightly spaced interstate traffic, following another car in front takes a lot for granted the person front will not panic at last moment and hit their brakes at the end of the merge lane without any warning. . (60 mph = 66/ft/second, or about the time one takes to a "quick"(?) glance over one's shoulder and judge speed, distance, dynamic positions, and intentions of other cars maybe even looking over their shoulder? ) QED Stumpy is right, if you rear end someone simply because of a milliseconds of having your eyes off the road you're following to close. Simply looking down at the dash would cause an accident if that was the case. As far as your reply, even if someone panic stops in front of you, if you hit them you were too close. Their car didn't stop instantly, it take time and distance to stop a vehicle. The higher the speed driven, the longer the distance required to stop. The problem is that people drive with one car length between cars at 70 mph and think that they have time to react. They don't........
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#2743076
02/15/20 06:43 AM
02/15/20 06:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20,034 Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20,034
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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Stumpy is right, if you rear end someone simply because of a milliseconds of having your eyes off the road you're following to close. Simply looking down at the dash would cause an accident if that was the case. I agree with everyone saying that if you rear end someone, you're following too closely, but that's true of every rear end accident. The difference between looking at your dash, and looking over your shoulder, is that when you look over your shoulder, your peripheral vision isn't going to help you. Looking down at the dash, you can still see your surroundings in your peripheral vision.
Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.
DBAP
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#2743083
02/15/20 07:40 AM
02/15/20 07:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734
Bitopia
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The assumption the :"look over the shoulder" is a mere "milliseconds" distraction is absurd,
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: jcc]
#2743093
02/15/20 08:17 AM
02/15/20 08:17 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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and i have been driving for 42 years. i look over my shoulder to check my blind spot multiple times a day, every day since i got my drivers license. i have never rear ended anyone.
so the concept that looking over the shoulder to check your blind spot will make you rear end someone is equally absurd.
in my opinion trying to check your blind spot by looking in the mirrors takes longer and is much more hazardous than just turning your head around to check your blind spot.
as the link i posted earlier. the Wisconsin, and probably every other state in the USA, DMV DRIVER TRAINING MANUAL RECOMMENDS looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot before changing lanes. it has been that way since i got my drivers license and probably been that way MUCH MUCH longer than that.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 02/15/20 08:20 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: jcc]
#2743096
02/15/20 08:47 AM
02/15/20 08:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,794 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,794
Holland MI Ottawa
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Technology makes things much easier- especially for us getting older. But those who buy this tech MUST BE PREPARED FOR ASTRONOMICAL REPAIR COSTS! Insurance rates will go up to because those companies pay for the fender bender that includes $2000 worth of damaged electronics in addition to the panel and paint damage.. Front end alignments that include replacing/aiming/calibrating driver assist sensors. Sensors only available from the mfgr $$$ not aftermarket. The general public loves all this stuff.....until repair time. Then they fill their britches and cuss out the shop presenting them the estimate. Its really a drive new every 2 (constant monthly payment) encouraged industry.
Last edited by 2boltmain; 02/15/20 08:51 AM.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: 2boltmain]
#2743099
02/15/20 08:55 AM
02/15/20 08:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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well said. most people like the electronics until they find out how much it costs to replace the, this is why i posted i don't want this stuff on my car.
i repaired a 2019 VW Touareg about 1 month ago. a fender bender requiring the replacement of both HID LED headlights, grill and front crash sensor was close to $15,0000. granted it was a $70K car new. but the headlights were over $5,000 EACH and that was without the bulbs and transformer, it was just a bare headlamp housing.
i have read LED tail lights can cost over $1K on some trucks.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 02/15/20 08:56 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: Sniper]
#2743144
02/15/20 11:17 AM
02/15/20 11:17 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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i agree 100% on new technology costs on cars is getting crazy. i forgot to add that the headlight main beam also turns with the steering wheel also. they also rise and lower the headlight aim by themselves when the load changes the car height. also when replacing they have to be programed also. sometimes they won't even light up until they have been programed. i think the HID bulbs are in excess of $100. when aiming these lamps you need a scanner to do that, no hand tools are required.
i recently repaired a high end BMW with similar priced headlamps.
Mazda also has similar headlamps i their high end cars. some cost in excess of $3K EACH. i would assume that all car and truck manufacturers have expensive parts like this in their cars.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 02/15/20 11:21 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: not_a_charger]
#2743152
02/15/20 11:42 AM
02/15/20 11:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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i agree. painting 46G paint codes STINKS.
i have yet to be paid to do a 4 stage paint job in the 3 years this custom color has been on the market. you also need a special paint gun with a 1.0 fluid tip to paint the base coat. our shop usually paints at least 2 cars a month this color. in my opinion it's nothing special that a 2 stage color can do.
a actually did a training video with PPG on painting this color when it first hit the market.
after several years of practice with this color i can SOMETIMES paint it in 2 stage, maybe about a 60/40 success rate in a out of the way areas.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 02/15/20 11:48 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: not_a_charger]
#2743169
02/15/20 12:27 PM
02/15/20 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,161 Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
5thAve
Doesn't care what this says anyway
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Doesn't care what this says anyway
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,161
Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
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THe problem with using cameras in place of side view mirrors is people won't bother checking out the window to see what's going on before turning or changing lanes. See it all the time with backup cameras in parking lots where they're not shoulder checking to see what's around them they're backing straight out staring at their dash. At least that lexus one from the article has pretty decent view and puts the screen where it does give you the chance of seeing something out the window. Some of the ones they've tested/shown before the screen is on the dash where you're not turning sideways at all.
If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive.
Last edited by 5thAve; 02/15/20 12:30 PM.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: 5thAve]
#2743229
02/15/20 03:57 PM
02/15/20 03:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20,034 Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20,034
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive. Operator error and failure to properly utilize the technology is not a flaw in the technology. The best driver on the planet can't see everything a backup camera sees.
Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.
DBAP
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: Mr T2U]
#2743248
02/15/20 05:10 PM
02/15/20 05:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,734
Bitopia
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and i have been driving for 42 years. i look over my shoulder to check my blind spot multiple times a day, every day since i got my drivers license. i have never rear ended anyone. Well I been driving 54 years and I rear ended somebody when I turned my head when 16 to look at yellow poka dot bikini on Ft Lauderdale beach. Point being , those are both anecdotal experiences, means little in the big picture.
so the concept that looking over the shoulder to check your blind spot will make you rear end someone is equally absurd. Nope, and nobody said it was, my original point, not to repeat myself, anytime taking your eyes off the road in front of you, is less stopping distance you have for the unexpected, PERIOD. And nobody will ever admit post accident that was a contributing factor. Since one only needs to misjudge one's stopping distance by a mere inch, and a single millesecond by itself for example at 60mph is greatet then that. I suspect most rear end accidents are because of a misjudgment more then a single inch.
in my opinion trying to check your blind spot by looking in the mirrors takes longer and is much more hazardous than just turning your head around to check your blind spot. You should try to measure your opinion of time, also understanding, it takes a conscious decision first of which way to turn ones head, where to focus you eyes, focus your eyes, interpret the other cars, determine, thier positions, their relative speeds,,their intentions (are they also turning their heads, make sense of what you see, then decide its sufficient, turn your head back in the direction you are haeded, and refocus. I suspect just moving your eyes, is a factor 10? times faster and at 60 mph that could a lot of distance.
as the link i posted earlier. the Wisconsin, and probably every other state in the USA, DMV DRIVER TRAINING MANUAL RECOMMENDS looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot before changing lanes. it has been that way since i got my drivers license and probably been that way MUCH MUCH longer than that. Guess they never drove a Class 8 with mirrors. I have learned something here, I now understand why when I am passing someone in the right lane, behind is faster approaching traffic, and they dangerously dart between between me and the just pasted vehicle on my right, because I kinda frown on cutting off the right lane vehicles because some a hole likely is in a hurry and tailgating, and never sees me turn my head right, to see if I clear to merge back right, because I am too stupid to trust my mirror?. I use my turn signals, but you have to wait for them for the proper distance to move over. .Oh well.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: 360view]
#2743276
02/15/20 06:41 PM
02/15/20 06:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,861 Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
RangerDan440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,861
Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
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I'm seriously tired of everything being digitized, automated and connected. Do we really need 'smart' refrigerators now?
The less we as humans are required to do for ourselves, the less we will be able to do for ourselves. The more that our cars (and other appliances) do for us, the more we as drivers rely on our cars to do for us and that's dangerous; I will not trust a 4000 lb machine at 80 mph to do everything and tell me what to do. There is no replacement for a safe, conscientious driver. I'll turn around and look, thanks.
68 Valiant 408 69 Charger 318 69 Cougar 351W 70 Torino GT 351C 71 Country Squire 351W 71 Road Runner 440+6 71 Satellite sedan 318 73 Duster 318 73 Challenger 383 77 Grand Prix 455 83 Malibu 9C1 383 84 Delta 88 403 87 Grand National 96 Ram 360 09 Crown Vic 10 Challenger R/T M6 15 Challenger Hellcat M6
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Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors
[Re: jcc]
#2743277
02/15/20 06:43 PM
02/15/20 06:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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and i have been driving for 42 years. i look over my shoulder to check my blind spot multiple times a day, every day since i got my drivers license. i have never rear ended anyone. Well I been driving 54 years and I rear ended somebody when I turned my head when 16 to look at yellow poka dot bikini on Ft Lauderdale beach. Point being , those are both anecdotal experiences, means little in the big picture. .
correct just differend driving experiences.
so the concept that looking over the shoulder to check your blind spot will make you rear end someone is equally absurd. Nope, and nobody said it was, my original point, not to repeat myself, anytime taking your eyes off the road in front of you, is less stopping distance you have for the unexpected, PERIOD. And nobody will ever admit post accident that was a contributing factor. Since one only needs to misjudge one's stopping distance by a mere inch, and a single millesecond by itself for example at 60mph is greatet then that. I suspect most rear end accidents are because of a misjudgment more then a single inch.
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first line is incorrect. i posted that people should turn your head around and check your blind spot. not a charger posted This whole "turn your head around/look over your shoulder" nonsense is just that. It's never a good idea to do that. the second point is correct. taking your eyes off the road for ANYTHING including checking your mirrors can be a contributing factor in a accident
. in my opinion trying to check your blind spot by looking in the mirrors takes longer and is much more hazardous than just turning your head around to check your blind spot. You should try to measure your opinion of time, also understanding, it takes a conscious decision first of which way to turn ones head, where to focus you eyes, focus your eyes, interpret the other cars, determine, thier positions, their relative speeds,,their intentions (are they also turning their heads, make sense of what you see, then decide its sufficient, turn your head back in the direction you are haeded, and refocus. I suspect just moving your eyes, is a factor 10? times faster and at 60 mph that could a lot of distance.
no you should actually check your concept of time. if you only use your mirrors in a car without a blind spot mirror on your regular mirror. you need to look TWICE at your mirror to see beside your car and then move your head and body to see the blind spot. just quickly turning your head takes less time than that.and to check your blind spot you only need to turn it a little, you can see ahead of you in your peripheral vision. i see people doing this daily.just using their mirror changing lanes........... they signal to change lanes, you are in the lane next to them slightly behind their blind spot. you slightly slow down to let them change lanes. they check their mirror to see if it's clear. see you and slow down even more until you pass them. if they had actually turned their head around to check their blind spot they would have seen there was plenty of room to change lanes safely. they wouldn't have slowed down and traffic behind them wouldn't have slowed down and the traffic behind them wouldn't have slowed down. this is the biggest cause of what you probably know well, MERGING DELAYS.
as the link i posted earlier. the Wisconsin, and probably every other state in the USA, DMV DRIVER TRAINING MANUAL RECOMMENDS looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot before changing lanes. it has been that way since i got my drivers license and probably been that way MUCH MUCH longer than that. Guess they never drove a Class 8 with mirrors.
if you had checked the link there was never a reference about driving a TRUCK. the manual linked is for beginning drivers learning to drive a CAR for the first time..
I have learned something here, I now understand why when I am passing someone in the right lane, behind is faster approaching traffic, and they dangerously dart between between me and the just pasted vehicle on my right, because I kinda frown on cutting off the right lane vehicles because some a hole likely is in a hurry and tailgating, and never sees me turn my head right, to see if I clear to merge back right, because I am too stupid to trust my mirror?. I use my turn signals, but you have to wait for them for the proper distance to move over. .Oh well. i would assume that the describe situation is when driving a truck pulling a trailer. i have rarely see this happen when driving cars, trucks yes i have. i have never said or suggested anything about driving a truck pulling a trailer. all of my comments were about driving CARS.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 02/15/20 06:55 PM.
perception is 90% of reality
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