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Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Cuda340] #2741974
02/11/20 02:59 PM
02/11/20 02:59 PM
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Doc Fiberglass Offline OP
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My understanding with DOT5 is that the system has to be entirely flushed COMPLETELY ..,, the plus with 5 is that you never have to worry about any moisture contamination

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2741983
02/11/20 03:28 PM
02/11/20 03:28 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340 Offline
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https://ebcbrakes.com/product/brake-fluids/

Here is a pretty good explanation. I guess I was confusing 5.1 with 5.

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Cuda340] #2742095
02/11/20 09:48 PM
02/11/20 09:48 PM
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Jeff, I couldn't say, either way. I saw it in the MA article and it popped my interest, as E'berg said it was good swap. I was interested if anyone here had ever converted over to 5, and if it WAS better.

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: jcruse64] #2742109
02/11/20 10:35 PM
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Never done not one in 50 years. I got a 65 Plym with original fluid, looks great, original trans fluid and original rear end oil, maybe in 2065 i might change it out.

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2742119
02/11/20 11:13 PM
02/11/20 11:13 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Well cMac ... how would YOU shuck and jive if you jsta quoted on a complete brake fluid flush for 180$ when the way they do it does NOT flush out ALL the contaminated fluid ?


I just clean the MC, add clean fluid and push it out all 4 corners until it runs clean. Call it a day.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: CMcAllister] #2742153
02/12/20 01:24 AM
02/12/20 01:24 AM
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Dave_J Offline
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The only way to totaly get the calipar 100% clean is to pull it apart. No amount of bleeding will get all the crud out.
But, is it needed most times? NO.

If I buy a used car and know the brake fluid is Expresso colored its time to pull the piston (s) out and clean. This is when I spend the $100 bucks or so and get all new flex hoses too.

Case in point. My 78 LRT has been sitting dead for 15 years. I am building its 410 stroker now and when I get the truck in the shop I will be replacing the master cylinder to a 2 bolt, the vac booster, the rubber flex hoses and any of the steel lines as needed. I will be pulling the Calipers and wheel cylinders apart to clean and inspect them. Its easy work.

One of the first things I drilled into my sons head,
"If you add to the GO you have to add to the WHOA" .


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03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Dave_J] #2742190
02/12/20 09:58 AM
02/12/20 09:58 AM
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it's better to stop BEFORE you go. [in my opinion laugh2]
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Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2742193
02/12/20 10:12 AM
02/12/20 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
My understanding with DOT5 is that the system has to be entirely flushed COMPLETELY ..,, the plus with 5 is that you never have to worry about any moisture contamination




But there can/could be issues with seal compatibility, DOT5 can deteriorate or swell some seals depending on their rubber composition...

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: DAYCLONA] #2742239
02/12/20 12:31 PM
02/12/20 12:31 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Quote
The only way to totaly get the calipar 100% clean is to pull it apart. No amount of bleeding will get all the crud out.


True. But fluid can become dirty, contaminated and/or absorb moisture. Clean fluid and bleeding usually helps a pedal if you're paying attention.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: CMcAllister] #2742597
02/13/20 03:12 PM
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Maybe I’m missing something but how can fluid become dirty, contaminated and have moisture if the system is closed? Now if you have a line brake then I say maybe.

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Cuda340] #2742642
02/13/20 07:04 PM
02/13/20 07:04 PM
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Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318 Offline
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Originally Posted by Cuda340
[
DOT 5 is silicone based, but from my understanding they can be mixed with DOT3 &4. The DOT won't leave it up to the end user to make that call whether they can be mixed or not, they are compatible correct? Please elaborate on pedal feel. Does the DOT 5 compress more than the glycol based 3 and 4? On a fresh system why would it be a disadvantage to run 5?

Jeff


DOT5 could cause some gelation or possibly be incompatible with the seals in the master cylinder as well. Chemicals that aren't intended to be mixed.

DOT5 can't absorb water or air from the fluid, it will not be absorbed and is more difficult to bleed, will not keep the water in suspension so any pools of water (there is moisture in the air) won't benefit from any protection the gylcol fluid could provide. You absolutely want the fluid to absorb it vs it pooling separately (like oil and water separate) This along with the slightly higher compressibility would make your pedal longer. It also will not flow through your ABS valves like the glycol fluid, so it will mess with the calibration at the very least.

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Maybe I’m missing something but how can fluid become dirty, contaminated and have moisture if the system is closed? Now if you have a line brake then I say maybe.


The system is absolutely not closed. The master cylinder has venting in it in all cases so fluid can flow when there is a leak or a need for more volume (such as pumping). They are usually venting slits or small holes in the membrane that are hard to see. The dirt is usually either from pushing the pistons back in during a pad change OR some level of leeching from the rubber parts, or wear of the seals or bores.

Last edited by goldduster318; 02/13/20 07:08 PM.

'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: cudaman1969] #2742643
02/13/20 07:04 PM
02/13/20 07:04 PM
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Harriman NY
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71GTX471 Offline
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Cudaman its foolish not flush & bleed your brakes,It takes so little & the gaines are huge.

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Maybe I’m missing something but how can fluid become dirty, contaminated and have moisture if the system is closed? Now if you have a line brake then I say maybe.


Brake fluid is highly hygroscopic moisture gets in regardless through the M/C lid seal & caliper/wheel cyl.seals the fluid becomes discolored & rust forms,the pedel feel can be night & day after flushing,try it I dare U.

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: John_Kunkel] #2742645
02/13/20 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by 71GTX471
Air leakage at the bleeder threads when using a clear tubing will fool you in to thinking you have air in the system .


That's what motivated me to get a pressure bleeder.


I find it tends to happen more frequently with power bleeders they create more velocity & pull air through the threads easier.

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: 71GTX471] #2742835
02/14/20 12:40 PM
02/14/20 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 71GTX471
power bleeders they create more velocity & pull air through the threads easier.


Huh?????


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: John_Kunkel] #2742839
02/14/20 12:47 PM
02/14/20 12:47 PM
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Auburn WA
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Originally Posted by 71GTX471
power bleeders they create more velocity & pull air through the threads easier.


Originally Posted by John_Kunkel

Huh?????


When you loosen the bleeder screw and put a Myovac suction type device on and pull a vacuum it can suck air around the screw threads.

The power bleed system that pushes fluid from the master cylinder will not do this.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Dave_J] #2742841
02/14/20 12:57 PM
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Doc Fiberglass Offline OP
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Heard from a guy who I had talked with before about STICKING CALIPERS


He said that moisture laden brake fluid can make the phenolic resin pistons in many of the calipers swell and then stick in the bore

Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: Dave_J] #2742857
02/14/20 01:37 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave_J

When you loosen the bleeder screw and put a Myovac suction type device on and pull a vacuum it can suck air around the screw threads.


Very true. Use a clear hose on the bleeder, watch and listen. You will see it. Pulls air around the threads and out the bleeder.

It can trick you into thinking it still has air in it. That's why I like to push, rather than pull, fluid through the last few times I crack the bleeder to see what's coming out.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 02/14/20 01:45 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: 71GTX471] #2742946
02/14/20 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 71GTX471
Cudaman its foolish not flush & bleed your brakes,It takes so little & the gaines are huge.

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Maybe I’m missing something but how can fluid become dirty, contaminated and have moisture if the system is closed? Now if you have a line brake then I say maybe.


Brake fluid is highly hygroscopic moisture gets in regardless through the M/C lid seal & caliper/wheel cyl.seals the fluid becomes discolored & rust forms,the pedel feel can be night & day after flushing,try it I dare U.

So when you say “pedal feel” you’re saying water can be compressed but brake fluid can’t? Or that the water and fluid will combine to make it feel bad? Or water is heavier and will go to the lowest line and rust it through (if it sets for a long period of time)? Or maybe if the fluid still moves around it won’t rust but the discoloring gives you the impression its no good? Kinda like rotating my cans of soup in the pantry to keep them fresh. Like I said, never in the 55 years of messing with cars have I ever changed fluid and my brakes have always worked very fine. Like washing lug nuts, useless
40+ cars through the years

Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/14/20 07:34 PM.
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: cudaman1969] #2743030
02/14/20 11:09 PM
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Water can not be compressed. But it will cause rust and corrosion. Moisture (humidity) will be absorbed by brake fluid and it will also substantially lower the boiling point of the fluid causing the pedal to go away if you manage to reach that boiling point.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: How do YOU do a brake fluid flush ? [Re: cudaman1969] #2743070
02/15/20 03:22 AM
02/15/20 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by 71GTX471
Cudaman its foolish not flush & bleed your brakes,It takes so little & the gaines are huge.

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Maybe I’m missing something but how can fluid become dirty, contaminated and have moisture if the system is closed? Now if you have a line brake then I say maybe.


Brake fluid is highly hygroscopic moisture gets in regardless through the M/C lid seal & caliper/wheel cyl.seals the fluid becomes discolored & rust forms,the pedel feel can be night & day after flushing,try it I dare U.

So when you say “pedal feel” you’re saying water can be compressed but brake fluid can’t? Or that the water and fluid will combine to make it feel bad? Or water is heavier and will go to the lowest line and rust it through (if it sets for a long period of time)? Or maybe if the fluid still moves around it won’t rust but the discoloring gives you the impression its no good? Kinda like rotating my cans of soup in the pantry to keep them fresh. Like I said, never in the 55 years of messing with cars have I ever changed fluid and my brakes have always worked very fine. Like washing lug nuts, useless
40+ cars through the years

If not flushing works for you, carry on carrying on. But I will not follow your example nor do I recommend it to others. YMMV.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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