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Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2740819
02/07/20 11:52 PM
02/07/20 11:52 PM
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I’m in Bradenton FULL TIME now. I sold that property in October...,

I still WANT to do some tweaking on the 413 but I don’t think I can do ANYTHING LIKE THAT in the shop I have now ..., probably going to build one out in the rural area.

Do you know the valve sizes in the heads ? lol

And I’d NEVER CONSIDER changing them !

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2740832
02/08/20 12:41 AM
02/08/20 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
I’m in Bradenton FULL TIME now. I sold that property in October...,

I still WANT to do some tweaking on the 413 but I don’t think I can do ANYTHING LIKE THAT in the shop I have now ..., probably going to build one out in the rural area.

Do you know the valve sizes in the heads ? lol

And I’d NEVER CONSIDER changing them !



I don't know about the valve size. How far down in the hole are the pistons? Any idea what compression height is? Wonder if a hemi length rod would bring the piston up high enough, or a 3.90 offset grind crank? Maybe with a 383 piston? Just thinking out loud and spitballing.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 02/08/20 12:58 AM.
Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2740841
02/08/20 01:09 AM
02/08/20 01:09 AM
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Valve sizes ... you better be sitting down ... 1.88 1.50 ...... eek

BUTTT excellent for the application up

THOSE are the only specs that I KNOW .... I did measure the deck height of the piston ... the width and depth of the dish in the piston etc. I did write them down but I don’t have them in hand.

Yes there’s the hemi rod option ... and the 4.15 crank with the 383 forged flat tops but I don’t have the spec sheet.

BTW ... I still have a 220 Travco UP THERE !

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2740957
02/08/20 02:12 PM
02/08/20 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Valve sizes ... you better be sitting down ... 1.88 1.50 ...... eek

BUTTT excellent for the application up

THOSE are the only specs that I KNOW .... I did measure the deck height of the piston ... the width and depth of the dish in the piston etc. I did write them down but I don’t have them in hand.

Yes there’s the hemi rod option ... and the 4.15 crank with the 383 forged flat tops but I don’t have the spec sheet.

BTW ... I still have a 220 Travco UP THERE !


With valves that small I can't imaging any concern of the sp2p intake being a bottleneck and causing any issues.

I had a deal worked out on a 320 Travco but it fell through. Really would love to find a big one as I plan to cross the country and live in it for months on end while doing so. I like the idea of starting out with a fiberglass body so I don't run into the typical water damage older rvs have.

Do you have any idea what rods are in the 413? What size rod bolts? I like the idea of a 1/2 rod bolt in a hemi rod, but I tend to want to overbuild stuff so I only have to do it once. I still love turning wrenches building engines on a stand, but the climbing in, out, under, and around to remove an engine or trans isn't easy on my old body anymore.

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2741099
02/08/20 11:15 PM
02/08/20 11:15 PM
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The 361 and 413 industrial motors had the standard B/RB 3/8 rod bolts and nuts.
The OEM street hemi rods have 7/16 bolts and nuts, some of the race only hemi rods Mopar use to sell had 1/2 inch bolts but I wouldn't consider them in any low RPM pulling motor for truck or motor home use tsk
Why add useless weight like that to the rotating assembly with those really heavy pistons work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2741798
02/11/20 01:10 AM
02/11/20 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Valve sizes ... you better be sitting down ... 1.88 1.50 ...... eek

BUTTT excellent for the application up

THOSE are the only specs that I KNOW .... I did measure the deck height of the piston ... the width and depth of the dish in the piston etc. I did write them down but I don’t have them in hand.

Yes there’s the hemi rod option ... and the 4.15 crank with the 383 forged flat tops but I don’t have the spec sheet.

BTW ... I still have a 220 Travco UP THERE !


With valves that small I can't imaging any concern of the sp2p intake being a bottleneck and causing any issues.

I had a deal worked out on a 320 Travco but it fell through. Really would love to find a big one as I plan to cross the country and live in it for months on end while doing so. I like the idea of starting out with a fiberglass body so I don't run into the typical water damage older rvs have.

Do you have any idea what rods are in the 413? What size rod bolts? I like the idea of a 1/2 rod bolt in a hemi rod, but I tend to want to overbuild stuff so I only have to do it once. I still love turning wrenches building engines on a stand, but the climbing in, out, under, and around to remove an engine or trans isn't easy on my old body anymore.


So the 320 Travco deal is totally dead ? There are lots of 270s out there but personally I’m not a fan of the sloped back - it KILLS inside living space.

The heads ? ... then consider the valve stem size on the exhaust valve - huge.

I sat down and did a whole lot of figuring and wrote it all down ... but that paperwork seems to be misplaced. I had also considered going the simple CUSTOM flat top piston route with a stock RB rod with a way higher CD.

IIRC - the cost was not that bad because it would be a very simple design

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: Cab_Burge] #2741801
02/11/20 01:23 AM
02/11/20 01:23 AM
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Well seaBee ... work ... the weight is not that huge PLUS the fact that you’ll be cutting sawzall some of the weight off the piston wrench hammer

Those HEAVY eek pistons ? The huge dished stockers in the motor ? whistling those are nothing but door stops or paper weights in the end up

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2741932
02/11/20 01:26 PM
02/11/20 01:26 PM
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mgoblue9798 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Valve sizes ... you better be sitting down ... 1.88 1.50 ...... eek

BUTTT excellent for the application up

THOSE are the only specs that I KNOW .... I did measure the deck height of the piston ... the width and depth of the dish in the piston etc. I did write them down but I don’t have them in hand.

Yes there’s the hemi rod option ... and the 4.15 crank with the 383 forged flat tops but I don’t have the spec sheet.

BTW ... I still have a 220 Travco UP THERE !


With valves that small I can't imaging any concern of the sp2p intake being a bottleneck and causing any issues.

I had a deal worked out on a 320 Travco but it fell through. Really would love to find a big one as I plan to cross the country and live in it for months on end while doing so. I like the idea of starting out with a fiberglass body so I don't run into the typical water damage older rvs have.

Do you have any idea what rods are in the 413? What size rod bolts? I like the idea of a 1/2 rod bolt in a hemi rod, but I tend to want to overbuild stuff so I only have to do it once. I still love turning wrenches building engines on a stand, but the climbing in, out, under, and around to remove an engine or trans isn't easy on my old body anymore.


So the 320 Travco deal is totally dead ? There are lots of 270s out there but personally I’m not a fan of the sloped back - it KILLS inside living space.

The heads ? ... then consider the valve stem size on the exhaust valve - huge.

I sat down and did a whole lot of figuring and wrote it all down ... but that paperwork seems to be misplaced. I had also considered going the simple CUSTOM flat top piston route with a stock RB rod with a way higher CD.


IIRC - the cost was not that bad because it would be a very simple design



That particular travco deal is dead, but there will be another. Really just looking for mostly the shell anyways as I will go through the whole thing. Have thought about buying a later model totaled RV at the salvage auction to get the systems and interior to retrofit if I can get one on the cheap. My craziest thought is a travco with a slide out.

I am sure the valve stems are bigger in part to transfer heat out of the valve into the head. More surface area means greater heat transfer. Probably have a nice fat valve face to seat contact area as well like the marine engines.

Do the exhaust valve seats have hardened inserts? Does it have exhaust rotators on the springs?

Doing some math I think you are on to something that the 11 to 1 piston would work well, but I can't find an info on the dome size other than it is .063 in height. Anyone know what CC's that dome is?

Compression height to flat part of 11 to 1 being 2.111 makes it .029 out of the hole if the block were to spec. The run of the mill mopars I have built are always tall. Is the 413-3 closer to spec or similar to the others? In reality probably close to 0 deck or slightly above. Close enough to manage quench with head gasket thickness. Thinking I would like to get to 9 to 1 compression. With the quench set right it should run on pump gas without problems. Could always fill up with high test if needed when going through the mountains.

A concern I have is those sodium valves. Read where some old Ford engines that use them had problems with them breaking if the motor had sat for a while before use. Is that a common problem with all sodium valves, or just poor blue oval engineering?


Last edited by mgoblue9798; 02/11/20 01:34 PM.
Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: Cab_Burge] #2741938
02/11/20 01:35 PM
02/11/20 01:35 PM
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mgoblue9798 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
The 361 and 413 industrial motors had the standard B/RB 3/8 rod bolts and nuts.
The OEM street hemi rods have 7/16 bolts and nuts, some of the race only hemi rods Mopar use to sell had 1/2 inch bolts but I wouldn't consider them in any low RPM pulling motor for truck or motor home use tsk
Why add useless weight like that to the rotating assembly with those really heavy pistons work


Thanks for the input Cab. I guess if ma mopar designed the -3 engines with 3/8 rod bolts they must have known what they were doing.

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2741944
02/11/20 01:57 PM
02/11/20 01:57 PM
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Real quick .. gotta get busy ....

I’m sure that the dome is bigger than 063. I do have a set - I’ll locate them and double check them.

Never heard an issue with valves breaking ... and yes they have replaceable valve seats on the exhaust side.

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2742156
02/12/20 01:45 AM
02/12/20 01:45 AM
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Auburn WA
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Not a huge travco but its a 26-30 foot 1968 Chinook Fiberglass on a Dully chassis and a Poly Teen on Market Place. $900

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/616067065634090/?ref=feed_rhc


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Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: Dave_J] #2742238
02/12/20 12:30 PM
02/12/20 12:30 PM
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ILLINOIS
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huh I thought the Poly was history by 68....

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: volaredon] #2742249
02/12/20 12:59 PM
02/12/20 12:59 PM
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Auburn WA
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I do not own or know the owner of the RV above

I thought they still made the Industrial Poly 318 past 1967 in Canada only. I do not know where a 1968 Chinook chassis RV was made. Could have been they had ten 58-67 chassis on stock and its the date of the body manufacture in 1968.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: Dave_J] #2742255
02/12/20 01:10 PM
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Oh my goodness ... that Chinook ... with a poly 318 ? ..., talk about UNDER POWERED ! eek

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: Cab_Burge] #2742652
02/13/20 07:36 PM
02/13/20 07:36 PM
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Harriman NY
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Mopar has made two different version of their truck and motor home motors on the 318, 360, 361 C.I. HD B motors, 413 and 440. they can come in the regular ratings and the -3 extra heavy duty rated motors, the 440-3 blocks and heads have extra cooling holes in them for the exhaust valves, the regular 440 standard rated home motors don't shruggy
All the Mopar H.D. dash 3 motors last a lot longer under heavy use up


They also have the small 5/8 spark plugs cause there is cooling passages around the plugs to keep them cooler,ran one of these engines in my Jensen Interceptor they where notorious for running hot.

Last edited by 71GTX471; 02/13/20 07:39 PM.
Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2742663
02/13/20 08:10 PM
02/13/20 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Oh my goodness ... that Chinook ... with a poly 318 ? ..., talk about UNDER POWERED ! eek



Nothing a a stroker kit wouldn't fix.

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2743515
02/16/20 11:58 AM
02/16/20 11:58 AM
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Any of you guys happen to have a scrap 413 or 426 max wedge 11 to 1 piston kicking around? Doesn't need to be useable I just want to take some measurements.

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2744242
02/18/20 12:21 PM
02/18/20 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Hi mGo ....is this a 413 or 440 ? What rear end gearing are you going to use ?


The more I run numbers the more expensive the 413 proposition becomes. I already have a 440 with 6pack pistons. If I get them to zero deck the compression comes out to about 8,75 to 1 with the 413 head chamber. Is this doable, or are there different coolant passages in the block?

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2744270
02/18/20 01:48 PM
02/18/20 01:48 PM
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What’s the deck height on that 6 bbl short block ? ... I think ZERO DECK is a blueprint spec not a production line number

Re: sp2p intake for 440 motor home [Re: mgoblue9798] #2744352
02/18/20 05:00 PM
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If your going to put this motor in a class A motorhome make sure the pistons tops are really thick for the extra heat in the combustion chambers that the motor will make pulling the heavy motor home scope twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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