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Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads #2741572
02/10/20 02:18 PM
02/10/20 02:18 PM
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bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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I am trying to decide which heads to order. I don't have unlimited funding so I am trying to stay on as much of a budget is possible. I have been reading articles and forums for two weeks and still undecided. So far from what I have read I kind of have it narrowed down to these few. Indy 440-1, Trick flow 270, Indy Max Wedge EZ super prepped from Hughes. I am wanting to try to reach around that 800 H.P. range and around 7000 RPM range. I am going to be putting on new heads intake rockers and push rods and headers. I will write up what my old combo was and see what you guys think would be my best choice. 10.00 Basically is my E.T. Goal but would be happy with a little fast.

440 RB Stock Block, Billet steel main cap, Line Bored, ARP Main studs, Squared and zero decked
Eagle 4.150 Forged crank, H beam rods, SRP Flat top Piston at 0 Deck. 4.380 Bore makes it 4.99 C.I.
Doug Herbert solid roller cam 272/275 @ .50 .620 lift with 1.5 rockers
MP Stage 6 heads, Full hand port with 75 cc chambers and a matching M1 intake with built in valley Machined for 4500 Carb also hand ported and matched to heads, Heads flow roughly .330 @ .700 Thats all the guy said when I bought them years ago
Holley 1050 Dominator
Msd Pro Billet dist with 7 AL3 box
Hooker super comp 1 7/8 headers with 3" collectors
727 foot brake trans with 8" Coan converter flashes around 5000 RPM
Dana 60 with 3.73 Gears,
Leaf springs. Mopar HXD leafs with cal Tracs
Afco double adjustable shocks
325-50-15 Mickey T Drag radial.
3750 weight with me in it.
1.48 60', 6.60 in the 1/8 and 10.60's quarter

My goal is to run 10.00 or even 9.80 would be alright! Just trying to figure out which one is going to get me there. I really like the Trick flow but just don't want to be back to running 10.60's as I have 8 years woth of 10.60 time slips. I have tried lots of little stuff and seems to run 10.60's all the time no matter what I change.


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741588
02/10/20 03:15 PM
02/10/20 03:15 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR Offline
mopar
HOTMOPR  Offline
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Oakville, Wa
swap pistons and cam and call it a day.

Last edited by HOTMOPR; 02/10/20 03:15 PM.

67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741589
02/10/20 03:17 PM
02/10/20 03:17 PM
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Posts: 43,123
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Two things to look at, the fuel supply first to make sure you have enough fuel for more air flow and second look at getting every part of the car lighter twocents
As far as the heads the more air they will flow with enough fuel will make you more power up work
I swapped 4 different pairs of heads on my old pump gas Duster, the iron 906 ported big valve heads that flowed 266 @.700 on the intakes made the car run 10,69 at 124. MPH weighing 3450 lbs. with me in it. I put a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM heads on it that flowed 310 CFMM @.700 lift and it went 10.49 at 127 MPH with the same intake and carbs and same compression ratio, I had a fuel delivery problem that I fix and the car then went 10.30.
I had the motor out for freshening and dyno tested two different sets of Indy heads, a set of SR M.W. ports that flowed 340 CFM @ .700 and a set of 440-1 that had a lot of port work done on them that flowed 370 CFM@.700 also. They both had 76.0 CC C chambers so the compression ratio was raised from 10,29 to 1 with the iron and Eddy RPM heads with the 84.0 CC chambers to 10.78 to 1 with the smaller 76.0 chambers.
I used a Indy 400-3 intake on both sets of heads with the same 1050 CFM Holley Dominator, the SR heads made 727 HP at 7300 RPM and the 440-1 heads made 775 HP at 7500 RPM missing from 5200 RPM up to peak RPM due to the dyno header flanges being smaller than the exhaust ports where on the 440-1 heads whiney it wasn't a dead miss, it was intermittent and not the same cylinders according to the EGT readings.
I put the 440-1 heads on a 526 C.I. 440 block bracket race motor I had and those heads made 70 more HP than the SR heads did on the same dyno, more air flow, more power up twocents
Make sure your headers will fit and work okay with the heads you decide to get, bigger exhaust flange holes than the exhaust ports are absolutely a must if you want more power scope Trust me on that, those dyno headers where only around .120 higher on the exhaust flanges on the bottom of the ports than the 440-1 heads where but those headers made those heads miss on both motors from a little over 5000 RPM up whiney
Testing headers on the dyno we found that all the motors, never mind the C.I. size, compression ratio or RPM made more power with bigger pipes shock shruggy
I haven't done the same header testing at the track on a A,B,A test but I have been told by more than one hard core honest Mopar racers that their cars went faster with bigger pipes and collectors at the tracks we both raced on work My current car has 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 primary pipe headers on it with a 4.0 collector, it has ran 8.86 at 150.+ MPH weighing right at 2800 lbs. with me in it, 5.50 ET at 120. MPH in the 1/8 mile boogie
BTW, my next go fast bracket motor will have a set of B1-MC heads on it that flow a bunch of air devil
Good luck on your deal, speed cost money, time and work, how fast do you want to go whistling grin

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/10/20 03:19 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: Cab_Burge] #2741595
02/10/20 03:30 PM
02/10/20 03:30 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR Offline
mopar
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Oakville, Wa
Good points Cab! I missed the header size in his post. Improvements to be made there.

Last edited by HOTMOPR; 02/10/20 03:31 PM.

67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: Cab_Burge] #2741598
02/10/20 03:38 PM
02/10/20 03:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Two things to look at, the fuel supply first to make sure you have enough fuel for more air flow and second look at getting every part of the car lighter twocents
As far as the heads the more air they will flow with enough fuel will make you more power up work
I swapped 4 different pairs of heads on my old pump gas Duster, the iron 906 ported big valve heads that flowed 266 @.700 on the intakes made the car run 10,69 at 124. MPH weighing 3450 lbs. with me in it. I put a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM heads on it that flowed 310 CFMM @.700 lift and it went 10.49 at 127 MPH with the same intake and carbs and same compression ratio, I had a fuel delivery problem that I fix and the car then went 10.30.
I had the motor out for freshening and dyno tested two different sets of Indy heads, a set of SR M.W. ports that flowed 340 CFM @ .700 and a set of 440-1 that had a lot of port work done on them that flowed 370 CFM@.700 also. They both had 76.0 CC C chambers so the compression ratio was raised from 10,29 to 1 with the iron and Eddy RPM heads with the 84.0 CC chambers to 10.78 to 1 with the smaller 76.0 chambers.
I used a Indy 400-3 intake on both sets of heads with the same 1050 CFM Holley Dominator, the SR heads made 727 HP at 7300 RPM and the 440-1 heads made 775 HP at 7500 RPM missing from 5200 RPM up to peak RPM due to the dyno header flanges being smaller than the exhaust ports where on the 440-1 heads whiney it wasn't a dead miss, it was intermittent and not the same cylinders according to the EGT readings.
I put the 440-1 heads on a 526 C.I. 440 block bracket race motor I had and those heads made 70 more HP than the SR heads did on the same dyno, more air flow, more power up twocents
Make sure your headers will fit and work okay with the heads you decide to get, bigger exhaust flange holes than the exhaust ports are absolutely a must if you want more power scope Trust me on that, those dyno headers where only around .120 higher on the exhaust flanges on the bottom of the ports than the 440-1 heads where but those headers made those heads miss on both motors from a little over 5000 RPM up whiney
Testing headers on the dyno we found that all the motors, never mind the C.I. size, compression ratio or RPM made more power with bigger pipes shock shruggy
I haven't done the same header testing at the track on a A,B,A test but I have been told by more than one hard core honest Mopar racers that their cars went faster with bigger pipes and collectors at the tracks we both raced on work My current car has 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 primary pipe headers on it with a 4.0 collector, it has ran 8.86 at 150.+ MPH weighing right at 2800 lbs. with me in it, 5.50 ET at 120. MPH in the 1/8 mile boogie
BTW, my next go fast bracket motor will have a set of B1-MC heads on it that flow a bunch of air devil
Good luck on your deal, speed cost money, time and work, how fast do you want to go whistling grin




So what heads would you prefer to make around that 800 hp mark on my combination? The original question. I have no heads at this point or rockers or headers or intake.

Last edited by dragram440; 02/10/20 03:46 PM.

67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741605
02/10/20 03:49 PM
02/10/20 03:49 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR Offline
mopar
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Sorry I assumed you had the stage 6 heads. Ive heard good things about the trick flows and -1s. Id like to try a set myself. But the stage 6s work fine for my combo.

Last edited by HOTMOPR; 02/10/20 03:50 PM.

67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741607
02/10/20 03:52 PM
02/10/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
I'd go for the 440-1 Indy heads (from someone like Dwayne Porter) w/ the Indy 440-3 intake and at east a 2" primary header w/ 3.5" collectors. Possibly change the cam to match if funds allow.
The -1 heads might not be the cheapest option, but they have the most potential.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741608
02/10/20 03:53 PM
02/10/20 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Not seeing 800 HP in that combination with any of those heads.

If the Stage VIs are MW, I wouldn't rule out keeping them and building a better combination around them. I don't know what sort of bang-for-the-buck improvement you'll get going to the TF 270 or "super prep" Indy EZs.

You've got a lot of variables in play, so better be clear on your budget before you jump in. I could imagine it spiraling out of control quickly, depending on what parts choices you make. Too many unknowns to really take this much further right now.

So... what IS your budget?

Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: BradH] #2741611
02/10/20 04:01 PM
02/10/20 04:01 PM
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bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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As of right now I have about $4000 to spend. I still have a little time so I can keep saving. I was looking at buying the 440-1 as the kit. The stage VI were not the max wedge ports. At what horsepower do you guys think it will take to go 9.80's in a 3750 lb car?


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741613
02/10/20 04:07 PM
02/10/20 04:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
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UK
rb446 Offline
mopar
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UK
770fwhp to go 9.80's. Bigger heads and a .700" roller are not going to peak at much less than 6500, more probably, your 3.73's won't cut it even with 28" slicks, 4.10's will put you around the 7000 trap with slip. Taller tyre?...less rpm.

Last edited by rb446; 02/10/20 04:09 PM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741614
02/10/20 04:08 PM
02/10/20 04:08 PM
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United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Offline
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How about taking some weight out of the car? wave


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: tboomer] #2741616
02/10/20 04:13 PM
02/10/20 04:13 PM
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bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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I really don't want to start gutting the car at this point. I was hoping to add some power. So you guys think these old stage VI heads will make around the same power as any of these other heads on my short block?


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741619
02/10/20 04:21 PM
02/10/20 04:21 PM
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United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Offline
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I don't think so...But I may be wrong.


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: rb446] #2741623
02/10/20 04:36 PM
02/10/20 04:36 PM
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dragram440 Offline OP
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Running 10.60 at 126 mph car seemed to be trapping at about 6500 with 3.91 gears . So when I built the Dana with big plans of spraying it I didnt want it to be trapping over 7000 so I decided to go with the 3.73 since there isnt a lot of gear options for the Dana. I thought if I can get it to run 10.00 with the 3.73 it would be getting right up around that 7000 range.


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741635
02/10/20 05:05 PM
02/10/20 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
I think a fully ported set of -1s, a custom roller, bigger headers, and the -3 intake will get you there. Talk to Dwayne Porter. I was in the process of building a 4.25" stroke version of the same type of setup you have before I bit the bullet and built my KB block hemi. My car is similar weight and I also wanted 9s NA on pump gas.
My plan back then was a 511" RB w/ the big CNC ported Indy -1s.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741643
02/10/20 05:14 PM
02/10/20 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,296
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
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NE Ohio
Pretty tall order for that heavy of a car car but its possible - head choice for me would be the Indy 440-1 325 CNC or the 345 CNC heads if you went 540 CI - you will need at least 14-1 compression and more cam - then there is the whole stock block issue but I will not get into that - converter will need to be in the 56-5800 stall range - low gear planetary will help also to get it moving

I can run high 9.70's @ 139 in an all steel car full interior that weighs in at 3970 with me in it on 9" slicks and a 4:10 rear gear with cal-tracks 60' is 1.40 - 1.42 - but that is with a 572 HEMI

Reducing the weight will help more than anything!

Last edited by DoubleD; 02/10/20 05:15 PM.
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2741654
02/10/20 05:27 PM
02/10/20 05:27 PM
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bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
I think a fully ported set of -1s, a custom roller, bigger headers, and the -3 intake will get you there. Talk to Dwayne Porter. I was in the process of building a 4.25" stroke version of the same type of setup you have before I bit the bullet and built my KB block hemi. My car is similar weight and I also wanted 9s NA on pump gas.
My plan back then was a 511" RB w/ the big CNC ported Indy -1s.


I have been running 110 so race gas is no issue. This car see's basically no street miles and if I can get the compression up I will run c16 if I have to. I just assumed since these other heads all flowed so much better then mine to start with it wouldnt be that much work. I did already buy a new cam but not possitive I am going to run it. It is a 278@.50 with .660 lift. I figured I would end up with the new rockers being 1.6 ratio.


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: tboomer] #2741659
02/10/20 05:31 PM
02/10/20 05:31 PM
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Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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dragram440  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by tboomer
How about taking some weight out of the car? wave


I did Fiberglass lift off hood and front and rear bumpers last year. Got me down to 3750! I does have interior with a back seat and seat belts.


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: dragram440] #2741660
02/10/20 05:38 PM
02/10/20 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
If the efficiency of the car remained the same with the new combo as it did with the 10.60 combo....... you’re looking for another 130hp.

I’m not sure that’s feasible with a $4k budget.

A bottle would do it.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads [Re: fast68plymouth] #2741663
02/10/20 05:41 PM
02/10/20 05:41 PM
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bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline OP
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dragram440  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
If the efficiency of the car remained the same with the new combo as it did with the 10.60 combo....... you’re looking for another 130hp.

I’m not sure that’s feasible with a $4k budget.

A bottle would do it.


I said I have $4000 save up to to get started. The 440-1 kit is $4200 to start with. I didnt think I said I had a $4000 budget.


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
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