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Re: Radon levels [Re: Cuda340] #2739996
02/05/20 02:36 PM
02/05/20 02:36 PM
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Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Originally Posted by Cuda340
Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Where is the scientific (not junk science) evidence that radon causes lung cancer? It seems that every case of lung cancer in non-smokers automatically gets pinned on radon with no supporting evidence. . Hence the statistics.


This should sum it up: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/radon/radon-fact-sheet



No data presented, outdated, biased, inconclusive, anecdotal, irrelevant junk science, pushed by the radon mitigation industry and the radon bureaucracy.


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Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740273
02/06/20 11:23 AM
02/06/20 11:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
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Wheatfield, NY
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Originally Posted by Cuda340
Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Where is the scientific (not junk science) evidence that radon causes lung cancer? It seems that every case of lung cancer in non-smokers automatically gets pinned on radon with no supporting evidence. . Hence the statistics.


This should sum it up: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/radon/radon-fact-sheet



No data presented, outdated, biased, inconclusive, anecdotal, irrelevant junk science, pushed by the radon mitigation industry and the radon bureaucracy.


Wow. very well articulated. I didn't know it was such a conspiracy to sell a $500 mitigation system to folks. I guess we will agree to disagree. If you want to get into the health physics on how radiation effects cells we can do that. Believe what you want. Whether its a high dose field or a low dose field the same effects at the cellular level can happen. Being that Radon is an alpha emitter it poses an internal dose hazard at any level. An alpha particle is the "bowling ball" of radiation particles which is essentially the nucleus of a Helium atom so its big in size and packs a punch, for lack of a better term. As it gets down into the soft tissue of the alveoli or (other organs) it can disrupt the cells processes. One of three things can happen: 1. nothing 2. hit the cell - disrupt the DNA and the cell repairs itself 3. mutate the DNA causing the cell to replicate abnormally or undergo uncontrolled division (cancer). There is radiation everywhere also inside of you H-3, C-14 for example. But as I mentioned above (in a different post) it comes down to dose and the physiology/geneology or the individual if you are predisposed. So the lesson here is risk assessment and I will minimize mine.

Last edited by Cuda340; 02/06/20 11:44 AM.
Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740274
02/06/20 11:29 AM
02/06/20 11:29 AM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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my house was built in 1872. in the courthouse records, it is listed in 1873 as a house and cow. [i'm still looking for that cow. biggrin]
the basement floor is half dirt, and the foundation is the old style dry sand and rock.
i'm sure if i tested for radon, i would find it.
at my age, that's just something i'm not going to worry about. laugh2
beer

Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740293
02/06/20 12:20 PM
02/06/20 12:20 PM
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central il.
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Gotta agree with Joel. Basements around here for over 200 years and no health problems.

Re: Radon levels [Re: second 70] #2740316
02/06/20 01:09 PM
02/06/20 01:09 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Originally Posted by second 70
Gotta agree with Joel. Basements around here for over 200 years and no health problems.
Do you know the levels in these basements? Quantitatively?

Re: Radon levels [Re: second 70] #2740318
02/06/20 01:10 PM
02/06/20 01:10 PM
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Minnesota
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I was listening to the news about 15 or 20 years ago and they had one of the scientists on who had originally sounded alarm on raidon because they had done the study in the underground mines. The guy said that after 10 more years of study they decided that they had jumped the gun, and that there was no danger to humans from radon exposure in their basement. So he said don't worry about it. But by then the bureaucracy and the industry had already taken it and ran with it. He claims that nobody would listen to him now.


sadly a good friend of mine, who has never smoked a day in his life, was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer at age 35. thanks to the prayers of hundreds, and advances in medicine, he is still fighting it and doing very well after 4 years. He has some of the best doctors in the country helping him out at the Mayo clinic. They told him that the cause is genetic. Virtually everybody else that he talks too, and everybody that I hear talking about him all claim it has to be from radon. He never smoked, radon is the number two cause, so that's why he has lung cancer. I think it's this type of hype that has everybody believing.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” – Mark Twain
"Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution."
Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740324
02/06/20 01:32 PM
02/06/20 01:32 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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the Mayo clinic is a GREAT place ! up
i was there for 3 1/2 weeks back in 2009, and they helped me a lot. i donate to their research when ever i am able.
thoughts and prayers for your friend Joel. he is in the place he needs to be for help.
beer

Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740326
02/06/20 01:35 PM
02/06/20 01:35 PM
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North East USA
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Kind of like talking to Anti-Vaxers. You offer to give them Measles or Polio and they won't take you up on your offer.

Would you volunteer to be in a study where you would be exposed to high levels of Radon so we may be sure your claims are accurate?

Asking for a friend!

Thank you
Kevin

Re: Radon levels [Re: moparx] #2740329
02/06/20 01:49 PM
02/06/20 01:49 PM
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From what I recall reading, older houses have less of a radon concentration since they are not as air tight as new homes. The radon has more of a chance to dissipate before getting into the normal living space. Newer homes, with basement located HVAC systems and an overall tighter seal from the outside are more susceptible as it may pull the gas from the basement and it can not escape.

Re: Radon levels [Re: njmopar] #2740343
02/06/20 02:38 PM
02/06/20 02:38 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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I refuse to go through life afraid of every calamity that some "expert" or "scientist" - who is probably making a pile of money by fixing it or knowing how to (I'm lookin' at you Al Gore) - says is going to kill me unless I take the remedies that they demand. I don't trust people who are getting rich and powerful over some disaster that only they can see (and fix).

I prepare for the things I know are out there - criminals, burglars, fire hazards, hail storms, stupid people, etc.. The rest of it is crap. And if it's not, there's no chance I was going to live forever anyways.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Radon levels [Re: CMcAllister] #2740375
02/06/20 03:25 PM
02/06/20 03:25 PM
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SE Wisconsin, USA
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We checked our basement and it was 20. We added a mitigation system and it is now <4.
So, here is some reasonable rationale...
Just because i can't see it or smell it, doesn't mean it is not affecting me or my family. It might all be crapola..but Spending $1000 for a bit of peace of mind is worth it. (i spend far more than that on car parts!)
Also, any house sold in our area has had the former owners test and install a system, so i was going to have to do it sooner or later anyways.

Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740386
02/06/20 03:54 PM
02/06/20 03:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,333
Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340 Offline
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
I was listening to the news about 15 or 20 years ago and they had one of the scientists on who had originally sounded alarm on raidon because they had done the study in the underground mines. The guy said that after 10 more years of study they decided that they had jumped the gun, and that there was no danger to humans from radon exposure in their basement. So he said don't worry about it. But by then the bureaucracy and the industry had already taken it and ran with it. He claims that nobody would listen to him now.


sadly a good friend of mine, who has never smoked a day in his life, was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer at age 35. thanks to the prayers of hundreds, and advances in medicine, he is still fighting it and doing very well after 4 years. He has some of the best doctors in the country helping him out at the Mayo clinic. They told him that the cause is genetic. Virtually everybody else that he talks too, and everybody that I hear talking about him all claim it has to be from radon. He never smoked, radon is the number two cause, so that's why he has lung cancer. I think it's this type of hype that has everybody believing.


I hope your friend can fight the good fight. Sorry to hear about anyone with that dreaded disease.

There are different cancers that can be attributed to different exposures: i.e. smoking carcinogens - mainly Benzopyrine, asbestos, silica dust and radiation exposure. We had many workers here in the Buffalo NY area that were exposed to uranium ore at the steel mills and other facilities when the Manhattan Project was in full swing in the 40's. Many of these workers developed a specific type of (lung) cancer later in life, that was directly related to these radioactive exposures. Radon is a daughter product of Uranium 238 decay series. As I mentioned before genetics plays a huge role unfortunately. But something has to trigger the cell whether it is from within or environmental that is the difficult question. In theory it only takes one Radon 222 alpha particle to do the job. The human body is very resilient and can repair itself to unimaginable lengths, your genes already have it mapped out for you. So I would still err on the side of caution and minimize your exposures, because as stated above the dose dictates the poison. The radiations workers philosophy is ALARA - as low as reasonably achievable...... I digress

Re: Radon levels [Re: RP's R/T's] #2740388
02/06/20 03:56 PM
02/06/20 03:56 PM
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Minnesota
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I have no issue with anyone wanting to install a radon mitigation system on their own dime. Or meteor rods to protect their house from meteorites, or anything like that. What I have an issue with is codes that require owners and builders to install these systems with no solid evidence that they are beneficial, adding cost for the owners.

Re: Radon levels [Re: RP's R/T's] #2740389
02/06/20 03:59 PM
02/06/20 03:59 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Originally Posted by RP's R/T's
We checked our basement and it was 20. We added a mitigation system and it is now <4.
So, here is some reasonable rationale...
Just because i can't see it or smell it, doesn't mean it is not affecting me or my family. It might all be crapola..but Spending $1000 for a bit of peace of mind is worth it. (i spend far more than that on car parts!)
Also, any house sold in our area has had the former owners test and install a system, so i was going to have to do it sooner or later anyways.


This is sound advice!!!!

Plus it may be code in some areas to have it tested or mitigation systems installed.

I'm building a 70 V-code Bee so car parts are pricey!!!!!! lol

Re: Radon levels [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2740398
02/06/20 04:11 PM
02/06/20 04:11 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
I have no issue with anyone wanting to install a radon mitigation system on their own dime. Or meteor rods to protect their house from meteorites, or anything like that. What I have an issue with is codes that require owners and builders to install these systems with no solid evidence that they are beneficial, adding cost for the owners.


I see your take, but that's only if you selling the house correct? I know in my area you can sign off on having the radon test done if you don't want it. I can see how it seems that big brother just has another hand in your pocket. I am not in the radon business so I have no skin in the game but health and safety is my livelihood. If my child developed lung cancer at a young age and there was something I could have done to prevent it, I couldn't forgive myself. As I see it an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Since the low dose exposures are not 100% proven I am going to minimize that risk....

Re: Radon levels [Re: Cuda340] #2740452
02/06/20 06:16 PM
02/06/20 06:16 PM
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runaway panic fan

I'm staying in bed tomorrow.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Radon levels [Re: Cuda340] #2740639
02/07/20 12:04 PM
02/07/20 12:04 PM
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central il.
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Originally Posted by Cuda340
Originally Posted by second 70
Gotta agree with Joel. Basements around here for over 200 years and no health problems.
Do you know the levels in these basements? Quantitatively?


No but when it first started you couldn't sell a house without the system. If you vent the house for a couple hours they pass but it not they fail.

Re: Radon levels [Re: second 70] #2740643
02/07/20 12:26 PM
02/07/20 12:26 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Last edited by Cuda340; 02/07/20 12:28 PM.
Re: Radon levels [Re: CMcAllister] #2740644
02/07/20 12:26 PM
02/07/20 12:26 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
runaway panic fan

I'm staying in bed tomorrow.


Are you still in bed? lol

Re: Radon levels [Re: RP's R/T's] #2740656
02/07/20 01:23 PM
02/07/20 01:23 PM
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michigan
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Originally Posted by RP's R/T's
We checked our basement and it was 20. We added a mitigation system and it is now <4.
So, here is some reasonable rationale...
Just because i can't see it or smell it, doesn't mean it is not affecting me or my family. It might all be crapola..but Spending $1000 for a bit of peace of mind is worth it. (i spend far more than that on car parts!)
Also, any house sold in our area has had the former owners test and install a system, so i was going to have to do it sooner or later anyways.


after reading this post I googled my area = moderate possibility
seen kits on line, then came across the Board Of Health Site --- they actually give them out for Free -

so It cant hurt to perform the test right -

would rather know then not


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