Hi Guys -

Wifey was sitting at a stoplight the other night and a woman drove into the back of her. Now the car is old, a fully loaded 2001 Buick Park Avenues with a 136 K on the clock, but it is mechanically solid, previously undamaged, and rust free.

The Allstate adjuster ( the other driver's company) looked at it today and estimated the damage at $2800 and the value of the car at $2042. I see similar cars, not as well equipped as this one going for $2500ish.

Here is what I don't understand. If I opt to keep the car they deduct a $300 "salvage" fee and only pay me $1742. HUH??? They want to withhold $300 they might get selling the $2000 car they "buy" from me ?

AND they will only pay the $1700 AFTER I have the car inspected by MVD and show them a new salvage title ($75 fee to MVD and waiting in line). They tell me it will likely not be granted a new salvage title unless I fix the trunk that will not close. Am I not entitled to the reimbursement for the full (underestimated) value of the car of regardless of what Allstate does with it? What if I want to keep the car and part it out myself?

If they pay you the actual cash value of the car, they are buying the car from you as though it was not damaged. They will then, in turn, sell the damaged vehicle, and the proceeds of the sale will offset a portion of the claim cost. Thus, if you want them to pay you, AND you want to keep the car, they amount they owe you is reduced by the projected salvage value of the car. They don't owe you the actual cash value in full if you keep the car.

Ask them for the source they used to determine the value of the vehicle, and the projected value of the salvage. They should willingly provide both. The documentation for the projected salvage value is likely a quote from either Copart or IAA, as all of the major insurers use one or both of those companies to handle their salvage.

Honestly, given the age/mileage, somewhere between the ACV they gave you, and your $2,500-ish figure, is probably accurate. As far as the salvage value goes, the figure they are quoting you sounds reasonable to me. It's worth scrap value or slightly higher, so $200-$300-ish.

I would fight for more. Your wife was hit, not the other way around. I’m certain you can’t get a solid, dependable one for the price they are offering & on KBB, there are examples over $4k for sale. I’ve been thru this before & you just have to hold out as long as you can & tell them it’s not enough. It’s the adjusters job to pay you as little as he can.

Also, in AZ, you are owed sales tax on the actual cash value of the totaled vehicle, regardless of whether or not you replace it. They also owe your license plate transfer fee. This is not true in every state.

In the Arizona Administrative code, R20-6-801, the AZ Department of Insurance specifies that an insurer can use the following methods to determine the actual cash value of a vehicle:



Standards for prompt, fair and equitable settlements applicable

to automobile insurance

1. When the insurance policy provides for the adjustment

and settlement of first party automobile total losses on the

basis of actual cash value or replacement with another of

like kind and quality, one of the following methods must

apply:

a. The insurer may elect to offer a replacement automobile

which is a specific comparable automobile

available to the insured, with all applicable taxes,

license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence

of ownership of the automobile paid, at no

cost other than any deductible provided in the policy.

The offer and any rejection thereof must be documented

in the claim file.

b. The insurer may elect a cash settlement based upon

the actual cost, less any deductible provided in the

policy, to purchase a comparable automobile including

all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees

incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of a

comparable automobile. Such cost may be determined

by:

i. The cost of a comparable automobile in the

local market area when a comparable automobile

is available in the local market area.

ii. One of two or more quotations obtained by the

insurer from two or more qualified dealers

located within the local market area when a

comparable automobile is not available in the local market area

The above is spot on. They are probably offering you wholesale. Don't forget to mention she might need to see a chiropractor, that usually loosens up the checkbook real fast

Make sure they don't try to bundle the property damage (your car) with the medical part (your wife) into a single process, they should be handled separately.
Whatever you do, don't sign off on the medical for at least a couple of weeks. Sometimes it takes that long (or a little more) before the real pain in her neck or shoulders may show up.
Being rear ended hard enough to total a rust free Buick Park ave was a pretty hard impact, it is not out of the realm of reality that a serious back or neck injury may show up. Once they get you to sign off on the medical part, there are no repercussions available for you. Gene

They can't do that, not in any state. An insurer does not need a release to settle your property claim. They absolutely must get a release to settle your injury claim. No release = injury claim not settled/closed.

On Cragislist in Phoenix there are 3 comparable Buick Park Aves. 2 2001's and a 1997. They are priced at $4750, $3000 and $6850. That averages out to $4850. That's what I'd ask for as value.

Like the AZ ADC says in what I posted above:

"Such cost may be determined

by:

i. The cost of a comparable automobile in the

local market area when a comparable automobile

is available in the local market area."

Can't hurt to try. And your chances are better in AZ than say, the midwest or northeast, where most of those cars have rusted into oblivion.

My experience has been that it's usually not worth buying it back unless the damage is easy to fix and if you think that the car is worth more then they're offering you find some realistically priced ads for same year comparable car to show what it would cost you to replace it and they'll usually work with you.

EDIT: Like not_a_charger said the ads had to be from somewhat within your area, similar mileage, only a year off at most, similar condition etc..

^ spot on advice here.

HEARD this saying several times ... ...and now I’m a believer since I was flatly denied a claim on a homeowners policy that I had for 16 years ..... I have NEVER HAD a claim on any policy EVER BEFORE ...

An insurance company is NOT your friend

Adjusters know that time is often on their side and will try to wait you out. If you have the time and inclination, do your research as already suggested and present that to them. It matters. Also, in many states, small claims is cheap and easy for the individual to file. But in many states, corporations must be represented by council. That is often more expensive for an insurance company than settling to your satisfaction. You don't necessarily have to go to court, and maybe not even file. Just have your facts in order, present them professionally, and let them know you are not going to settle for less than your research says you are entitled to.

They know the value of your car, and if you are on solid ground with your estimate and convince them of your intent to see the process thru, you'll get better than their initial offering.

Tell the adjuster your minimum price . Or there next call with be from your attorney

DO NOT rule out personal injury

'After dealing with a ' scumbag try to get you to close as cheap as possible adjuster' when my daughter was broadsided in her car a couple years ago. I will NEVER deal with one again.
I will call an attorney and they can talk to them .

Old guy hit my 19 year old girls car in the pass door , totaled her car and NOT once did he walk back to ck on them. NOT ONCE. When my daughter told me this I wanted to go have a chat with him but the police officer writing the accident up strongly advised against it

I hope your wife is ok! First her nice patio table....and now this! Did the hit destroy the rear bumper cover? If it took enough of a lick to make the trunk lid not close, the whole tail panel is probably junked. It might be best to let it go, and just take as much money as you can get out of Allstate, and buy her another Park Avenue of that vintage. I had to go to FL for work once in 2003ish, and rented a Park Avenue. I stopped after about 150 miles and put gas in it because I thought the gas gauge was broke! Only got like 5 gallons in it! That boat got some great gas mileage. Good luck with the ordeal.

I've looked around a little bit. Valuation tools on KBB and NADA are $2700 and $3350 respectively, assuming "very good" condition, which I think this car qualifies for. I've found similar Buicks in Tucson and Phoenix (100 miles away) on Craigslist offered for similar prices.

The $2042 offer is low in my opinion. I'm prepared to take a total loss settlement but I think they are low balling me. For what it is worth, I put $572 in the car 10 days ago for an oil pan gasket, tune, and window regulator work.

I don't think I'm going to accept this offer, not sure what will happen. I have their rental until Feb 14. Part of me thinks I should file a civil suit against their insured and let the insured raise hell with them.

The whole thing is a scam from the get-go...

It's a law you must have it but maybe 20% of people out there don't...

God forbid something does happen cause when it does your gonna get hosed...

Seems to me when my Mercedes (93 190E 4 door 4cyl beater) got totaled a bunch of years back that I was told by the other drivers insurance that if I could show proof of receipts for non normal maintenance over the last 90 days they would consider that as an added value that would be pro-rated.

I had a few receipts but most were maintenance items...After the accident the car ran fine but had a bent up fender and bumper along with a busted grill and h/light bezel...I ended up driving it for another 4 or 5 months telling them when they bring me a car to replace this one they can have it...

They were scrapping it anyway so I waited them out as long as I could...sold the newer tires and put the bald ones back on...swapped the new battery with the one that wouldn't hold a charge for more than a couple days....removed all the new LED lights and put the old bulbs back in...

Took the tags back to DMV and cancelled the insurance and the next day they picked it up and sent it on its way...

I don't care what company it is...anytime you get hit by someone else and your car is an older car you are going to take the high hard one...It doesn't matter that it was a great car and was paid for or whatever you'll never get enough value back from an insurance company to replace it...

Personally I'd like to see an insurance company offer agreed value coverage for a daily driver...it might be worth a few extra bucks a month knowing that if something does happen your not going to get hosed...

That adds no value to the car at all. About the only things that do would be a new or rebuilt engine and/or transmission, and 4 new tires.

From the comps being posted here, I would agree that the offer sounds low. As I posted earlier, I would ask them for the documentation they used to determine the value of the car, and the value of the salvage. That gives you more info that you can use to negotiate a higher settlement.

Some companies kinda sorta have that in the form of "new car replacement" coverage, but the scope and availability of that coverage is limited. Your idea is an interesting one. My educated guess is that the primary deterrent to doing so is that it's not in the wheelhouse of most companies' underwriting process. That's not to say that it couldn't get there, though.