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Re: R.I.P Kobe Bryant [Re: TJP] #2736914
01/26/20 09:50 PM
01/26/20 09:50 PM
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W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Originally Posted by TJP
Prayers for his family, but it bothers me that this gets more exposure and response here than the following

SAD!!!


iagree This afternoon my wife and I were talking about this. I work with a army vet who was in Afghanistan, he was shot once and blown up once by a suicide bomber. In the bombing he suffered brain injuries and practically had his face skinned off. I told my wife that when he passes (hopefully many, many years from now) he won't make the news. Even though he sacrificed way more for our country and received much, much less than folks like Koby did.

Don't get me wrong, I am truly sorry for the families of all involved and I pray for comfort in their time of need. But guys like my friend at work fought, were injured and some died so guys like Kobe could make millions playing a game. IMHO, our society has some serious priority issues.

Radar shows circling pattern [Re: BloFish] #2736915
01/26/20 09:52 PM
01/26/20 09:52 PM
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Trulyvintage Offline
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I read online the helicopter circled for 10 to 15 minutes.

An eyewitness out walking her dog hear the helicopter really loud
and then it seemed to go silent and then loud sounds.

I have driven in that dense fog.

That could have happened - the NTSB will determine the cause.



Jim drive

Re: Radar shows circling pattern [Re: Trulyvintage] #2736920
01/26/20 10:16 PM
01/26/20 10:16 PM
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Sad all around.
Heres the audio and flightpath, and it sounds like they flew into the ground

Re: Radar shows circling pattern [Re: A990] #2736924
01/26/20 10:31 PM
01/26/20 10:31 PM
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jcc Offline
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That is sobering, in the blink of an eye, and its over. eek


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Flew into the mountains [Re: jcc] #2736925
01/26/20 10:44 PM
01/26/20 10:44 PM
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This is probably what happened ....

Flying Too Low In Clouds




Jim drive

Re: Radar shows circling pattern [Re: jcc] #2736926
01/26/20 10:47 PM
01/26/20 10:47 PM
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KY USA
mopargem Offline
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Originally Posted by jcc
That is sobering, in the blink of an eye, and its over. eek

I concur frown

Re: Radar shows circling pattern [Re: mopargem] #2736936
01/26/20 11:27 PM
01/26/20 11:27 PM
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I am a FAA licensed commercial instrumented rated single engine land air plane pilot with no experiences in any helicopters.
I am under the impression that most helicopters are rated for visual flight rule flying only, which is defined as minimum of 1000 ft. ceilings and 3 mile visibility in all directions, also the rule of at least 1000 Ft clearances, unless landing, in urban area from all people and buildings, this flying rule applies to all certified aircraft including helicopters.
My heart weeps for the families of those that where killed in this accident, including Kobe Bryant family angel


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Mechanical Failure ? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2736954
01/27/20 01:21 AM
01/27/20 01:21 AM
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Well .....

I just saw this video taken moments before the crash .....

The helicopter is spinning out of control ....

Mechanical Failure ?




Jim drive

Re: Mechanical Failure ? [Re: Trulyvintage] #2736956
01/27/20 01:24 AM
01/27/20 01:24 AM
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That video is not of the accident.

What Helicopter Crash ? [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2736959
01/27/20 02:08 AM
01/27/20 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
That video is not of the accident.


It is purported to be taken today ( Sunday ).

If it isn’t - what is the helicopter accident video in the link showing ?



Jim drive

Re: What Helicopter Crash ? [Re: Trulyvintage] #2736960
01/27/20 02:25 AM
01/27/20 02:25 AM
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It's not showing a foggy day outside LA, that's for sure.

Supposedly it's footage from the UAE, I think.

Re: What Helicopter Crash ? [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2736961
01/27/20 02:31 AM
01/27/20 02:31 AM
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Flight tracker information appears to show the helicopter flying into the hill at 150 mph. Looks like the pilot tried to gain altitude right at the end. I do not know how accurate the flight tracker info is. If you listen to the air traffic control tape you can hear the controller asking the pilot what he is doing. He asks what are you intentions? Your altitude is too low for that terrain. The air traffic controller told the pilot to follow the freeway but for some reason the pilot took a left turn into the hill. We'll get a report from the Feds in a few months. Be interested to see what they find.

R.I.P Kobe Bryant [Re: Trulyvintage] #2736975
01/27/20 06:23 AM
01/27/20 06:23 AM
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger Offline
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Originally Posted by Trulyvintage
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
That video is not of the accident.


It is purported to be taken today ( Sunday ).

If it isn’t - what is the helicopter accident video in the link showing ?



Jim drive


A different helicopter accident. eyes


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

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R.I.P Kobe Bryant [Re: AndyF] #2736976
01/27/20 06:24 AM
01/27/20 06:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Flight tracker information appears to show the helicopter flying into the hill at 150 mph. Looks like the pilot tried to gain altitude right at the end. I do not know how accurate the flight tracker info is. If you listen to the air traffic control tape you can hear the controller asking the pilot what he is doing. He asks what are you intentions? Your altitude is too low for that terrain. The air traffic controller told the pilot to follow the freeway but for some reason the pilot took a left turn into the hill. We'll get a report from the Feds in a few months. Be interested to see what they find.


Here's a post from a recently retired Army helo pilot. He's a member of another board I frequent.

"CFIT

Controlled flight into terrain.

Number one killer of Army Aviators.

Weather - Number one cause

I’ve flown special visual flight rules (SVFR) more times than I can count, and every single time was [censored] terrifying.

Weather at the time of the crash.

1100ft ceilings Overcast, 2.5 miles of visibility with haze. 30.19 altimeter setting on the first call heard on the radio.

One of the radio calls, the controller stated that an aircraft had a missed approach while flying under instruments, and was unable to see the runway. Which means an aircraft, flying instruments, descended to 100-400ft above the runway depending on the type of approach, could not see the runway, the runway lights, or even the airport, aborted the approach, and was setting up to try again.

When they transitioned to the next airports airspace the tower called out Altimeter is 30.16

Ambient pressure dropped.

Weather gets worse when the pressure drops, ceilings come down, visibility gets worse.

One of the last calls from the helicopter, they were requesting flight following.

The controller asked them to ident. Meaning push the identification button on the transponder so the radar system can pick them up.

They were so low, the radar could not see them.

No more transmissions were received.

To those of you who don’t understand what it’s like to fly in the clouds.

Imagine spiritedly driving an awesome canyon road around 80mph, and suddenly your windshield completely fogs over, all you see is grey, and the defroster is totally ineffective, only you can’t slow down, and the only thing to guide you is the GPS screen on your dashboard.

Even then, this doesn’t capture the full situation, because now your car can hover above the road, be below the road, drift to either side of the road, and can begin to roll to the left or the right or the nose can pitch up or down. If it rolls too far, or pitches up or down too far, it begins falling uncontrollably.

Your body can tell you the car is rolling when it’s not, and can even get so bad that if feels like you are spinning in your seat, and doing somersaults in any direction. You hands will instinctively attempt to correct and get the spinning in your head to stop. The only way to overcome it, is to look at and trust your instruments aren’t lying to you, suppress all the sensations your body is telling you, and fly the instruments like a video game. It’s incredibly difficult.

On top of that. Helicopters don’t want to fly straight and level. They are constantly attempting to roll one direction or another, pitch up, and pitch down. It requires 100% of your full attention, and constant control inputs to keep the helicopter going the direction you want it to go.

Additionally if you admit that you can’t see, and declare an emergency to have the people on the ground to help you get safely back where you’re going, you can lose your job that you have worked your entire life to earn for putting yourself in that position in the first place.

I had a hard self imposed limit of 1000ft ceilings and 3 statute miles of visibility before I would take off for a non-essential flight.

If people were getting shot at, and weather was going to improve for the duration of the flight, I would push down to 500ft and 1.5SM, with every intent of being ready to declare an emergency, pull in max torque at max rate of climb, transition to the instruments, and shoot an approach back to the airfield.

You don’t push weather. That’s how you die."


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Re: R.I.P Kobe Bryant [Re: justinp61] #2737024
01/27/20 11:42 AM
01/27/20 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by TJP
Prayers for his family, but it bothers me that this gets more exposure and response here than the following

SAD!!!


iagree This afternoon my wife and I were talking about this. I work with a army vet who was in Afghanistan, he was shot once and blown up once by a suicide bomber. In the bombing he suffered brain injuries and practically had his face skinned off. I told my wife that when he passes (hopefully many, many years from now) he won't make the news. Even though he sacrificed way more for our country and received much, much less than folks like Koby did.

Don't get me wrong, I am truly sorry for the families of all involved and I pray for comfort in their time of need. But guys like my friend at work fought, were injured and some died so guys like Kobe could make millions playing a game. IMHO, our society has some serious priority issues.


It's not a competition for which death was more important, both were tragedies.

It should be understandable that a well-known personality like Kobe Bryant would get more attention on a messageboard, due to his level of fame. It doesn't erase the fact that LTC Brian Winters' passing is a sad event as well. FWIW, my BIL passed away due to ALS - it is a horrible disease - nobody should have to go through this.

Re: What Helicopter Crash ? [Re: AndyF] #2737040
01/27/20 12:26 PM
01/27/20 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Flight tracker information appears to show the helicopter flying into the hill at 150 mph. Looks like the pilot tried to gain altitude right at the end. I do not know how accurate the flight tracker info is. If you listen to the air traffic control tape you can hear the controller asking the pilot what he is doing. He asks what are you intentions? Your altitude is too low for that terrain. The air traffic controller told the pilot to follow the freeway but for some reason the pilot took a left turn into the hill. We'll get a report from the Feds in a few months. Be interested to see what they find.




I am having lunch with some pilots today. one question I have, is if there was heavy fog, why wasn't the pilot flying at an altitude about any hills or structures, to avoid this kind of event? I don't fly, but it seems like a sensible thing.


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Re: What Helicopter Crash ? [Re: HoosierTA] #2737053
01/27/20 12:55 PM
01/27/20 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HoosierTA
Originally Posted by AndyF
Flight tracker information appears to show the helicopter flying into the hill at 150 mph. Looks like the pilot tried to gain altitude right at the end. I do not know how accurate the flight tracker info is. If you listen to the air traffic control tape you can hear the controller asking the pilot what he is doing. He asks what are you intentions? Your altitude is too low for that terrain. The air traffic controller told the pilot to follow the freeway but for some reason the pilot took a left turn into the hill. We'll get a report from the Feds in a few months. Be interested to see what they find.




I am having lunch with some pilots today. one question I have, is if there was heavy fog, why wasn't the pilot flying at an altitude about any hills or structures, to avoid this kind of event? I don't fly, but it seems like a sensible thing.


Pilots get very disoriented easily in dense fog or no visibility situations. Once we loose our visual reference, our other senses try to fight to make us do what they think they are experiencing. So a pilot may pull back on the stick thinking they are diving and actually cause a stall, or dive when they think they are flying level (JFK Jr's accident). The question is; why didn't the pilot rely on instruments? All things considered, even with 0 visibility, the instruments should have been showing motion and altitude. He was a seasoned pilot. But there is a reason Instrument Flight Rating is more difficult to get. I had a acquaintance that was a flying instructor. He would demonstrate IFR flying by covering up the top half of the monitor when running MS Flight Simulator. I think in real airplanes the students have to fly with the windscreen blocked and navigate a flight path with no visual references. Imagine driving your car strictly on what the navigation system, or of your car isn't equipped, what Google Maps is telling you. A bit crude but same principle.


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Re: What Helicopter Crash ? [Re: HoosierTA] #2737055
01/27/20 01:10 PM
01/27/20 01:10 PM
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I'm sure we'll find out more over the coming months but right now it appears that the pilot flew into a fog bank and got lost and crashed it. The pilot was rated for instrument flying but the helicopter was going super fast, some reports say it crashed at 180 mph, so the pilot only had a few seconds to react. He might have just gotten confused and made the wrong choice. If you look at the pictures of the crash you can see that the helicopter hit pretty low on the hill. It isn't like they were trying to go over the hills or anything, they just flew into the bottom part of the hill right above where some houses are. Also, the flight path was parallel to the hills. The pilot did not need to go over the hill to get to where he was going. He was supposed to be going west and the hill was to the south. So for some reason he flew south into the hill rather than west to Thousand Oaks which is where they were going. My guess is that it is a simple as the pilot getting lost in the fog and turning the wrong direction and that was the end.

Re: R.I.P Kobe Bryant [Re: not_a_charger] #2737144
01/27/20 04:24 PM
01/27/20 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by not_a_charger

Additionally if you admit that you can’t see, and declare an emergency to have the people on the ground to help you get safely back where you’re going, you can lose your job that you have worked your entire life to earn for putting yourself in that position in the first place.


And there is also the "star" factor, famous/wealthy passengers have a way of distorting pilots good judgement, even sometimes without speaking a word.

The list is long.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: R.I.P Kobe Bryant [Re: jcc] #2737151
01/27/20 05:03 PM
01/27/20 05:03 PM
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Yeah I'm sure that factored into it. The flight had been delayed for 15 minutes while they waited for other traffic and the pilot was trying to get the girls and the coaches to their game so I'm sure he was stepping on it. When I saw that they were flying at 185 mph in the fog at low altitude over a heavily populated area I was thinking that seemed a little fast. But it was a very sophisticated helicopter and the pilot was super qualified. Something went wrong.

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