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small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet #2735979
01/23/20 11:58 PM
01/23/20 11:58 PM
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Scat Offline OP
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Doing a 416 for my Duster. Just been on the fence on going with a roller or flat tappet. I have seen all over on older posts oiling mods to run either. Just unsure if they are better ways out there or a simpler way of doing it.


73 Duster 340 a518 6pack
Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: Scat] #2736029
01/24/20 08:46 AM
01/24/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt Offline
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Jacob Pitt  Offline
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Mansfield, Tx
I have had a lot of experience the last few years dealing with small block oiling systems with my Super Stock car. There are a few just basic things to look for with a bracket engine. Mostly whichever cam you decide to go with put the cam in the block and remove a oil galley plug from the lifter galley. At full lift make sure the lifter doesn't uncover the lifter galley oil passage where you would end up bleeding off excessive oil pressure. If the lifter uncovers the oil galley you will need to bush the lifters or tube the oil galley. Other than that there are multiple things you can do but unless it's a 8500 rpm engine, a good oil pump, and oil pan will be the best things to do.


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Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: Scat] #2736125
01/24/20 01:39 PM
01/24/20 01:39 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
Adding baffles in a stock oil pan is a must if you want the motor to live twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: Cab_Burge] #2736145
01/24/20 02:12 PM
01/24/20 02:12 PM
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Posts: 20,144
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

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PA.
I will be drilling and tubing the block for my new 408 either today or this weekend. Checking my clearances right now so I can send everything out to be balanced

06FDA2DF-6C0F-4032-A096-27F50E42737B.jpeg

1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: pittsburghracer] #2736160
01/24/20 02:38 PM
01/24/20 02:38 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Online content
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CMcAllister  Online Content
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Anything beyond a basic bracket engine, i.e. 6800+RPM, bush the lifters. 1) You correct the sloppy factory machining and/or worn bores. 2) You fix 16 huge internal oil leaks and keep that oil on the crank. If you need to pressurize the lifters, you can do it in a controlled fashion through the bushings. If not, run the left hand galley dry.

Do the normal, well documented detailing to the internal passages, pump to cap match,

Consider other methods that have been documented in different places, all of which are intended to get solid oil on the mains and the crank and keep it there.

Restrict the 4 large leaks to the cam bearings. Restrict oil to the rocker gear and/or remove the head feed from the 2&4 cam bearings - keep that oil on the 2&4 mains. Plumb a separate oil feed from the pump to the front of the right galley - pressure feed to both ends of the galley equalizes flow and pressure in that galley.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: Scat] #2736218
01/24/20 05:17 PM
01/24/20 05:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
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All the above are good answers. Baffeling is the first step. Windage and scraping a good idea too. A simple scraper is just an angled tin strip in the pan like picture #2 below.

Now is this 416 a standard or a Magnum block? The standard block has 1/4 inch oil holes from the right lifter gallery down to the Mains and that needs the McCandels drilling mod. Also the standard blocks oil passeges from the pump to the filter and then back to the right side lifter gallery is about a 13/32 hole and very rough bored. Needs drilled to 1/2 inch and be smooth.

The Magnums have 5/16 holes down to the mains so no drilling. The passage from the pump is between 15/32 and 1/2 inch. The #5 main bearing cap is too small and should be drilled to 1/2 inch and blended to the port of the pump.

Now, stock oil pan pickups are JUNK. Too small tubing size. With a stock pickup and a Melling High Volume pump, a direct pump pick up (see picture below) will flow more oil even with a low volume pump. This is the type of pickup that replaces the oil pumps cover and has a 1/2 inch or bigger port. Depending on what the engine is going in, you may need a longer tube. The picture below is for a rear sump Truck 360's pan.

Kevko M303 pickup.jpgChevy BB Oil Pan.jpg

Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: Dave_J] #2736236
01/24/20 06:04 PM
01/24/20 06:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

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Posts: 20,144
PA.
Be very very careful with a Canton oil pan. My Duster was losing oil pressure on launch with one and luckily I caught it on my RacePak. I put my milidon pan on after that and my buddy found the pickup to be to far off the bottom of the pan after I told him this. Luckily it was still on the engine stand so he did the needed mods.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: pittsburghracer] #2736246
01/24/20 06:23 PM
01/24/20 06:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
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Dave_J  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Be very very careful with a Canton oil pan. My Duster was losing oil pressure on launch with one and luckily I caught it on my RacePak. I put my milidon pan on after that and my buddy found the pickup to be to far off the bottom of the pan after I told him this. Luckily it was still on the engine stand so he did the needed mods.


My bad. That picture is a BBC oil pan I copied from my buddys 454 3500 work truck build photo folder. Only one I have with a welded in simple scraper. We did re-do the pickup to fit correctly and baffled it better.
But you can still copy that downward sloped scraper strip to any pan. Simple one is just flat across the front as it is inline with the cranks upswing. But you can custom fit it to fit closer to the crank and rod throws on the up swing side if the anal retention bug bites ya. wink

The pickup should be no more than 7/16 from the bottom. That one shown is listed as for a 9 inch deep pan but in my 5.9 Magnum pan it is 3/4 inch from the pan bottom. On my 360 truck rear sump its 1 inch off the pans floor, MAY TOO MUCH. I am redoing one using the original pump cover drilled with a stick of 1/2 ID DOM bent in a S shape on my EMT hand bender to place it where I need it. TIG welded all seams.

Oiling is a dance. Not in any order but you should do what is best to fit your needs:

1. Splash and windage control.
2. Pickup flow.
3. Pump flow.
4. Internal port flow and needed restriction.
5. Return it to the pan. Rinse and repeat.

Last edited by Dave_J; 01/24/20 06:45 PM.

Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: small block oiling Mods. solid roller cam/ solid flat tappet [Re: Dave_J] #2736536
01/25/20 03:43 PM
01/25/20 03:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,483
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Online content
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,483
Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by Dave_J

Oiling is a dance. Not in any order but you should do what is best to fit your needs:

1. Splash and windage control.
2. Pickup flow.
3. Pump flow.
4. Internal port flow and needed restriction.
5. Return it to the pan. Rinse and repeat.


All true. And I've done all those things, and more (think custom dual feeds for the pump, big pumps, tricky pans, Accusump, etc) and at some point you have to come to the conclusion that it's not a supply problem - read my signature. My problems weren't improved until I started to look at the other end of it. The right side galley, and beyond that, the main bearing saddles and everything beyond that. The main bearing isn't the end of it. That's just the beginning once you look at the rest of the system.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 01/25/20 03:45 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.






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