Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2735224
01/21/20 11:18 AM
01/21/20 11:18 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,564 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,564
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Just a few things I can think of right now that I've seen from running my own stuff...
1. A vacuum pump only helps w/ oil leaks on a mid 9 sec NA 572. Saw zero performance difference, but it did stop the little annoying oil leaks. Had low tension rings in it too. Might work better on other combos, but I certainly don't think it's worth it. Chip, Everyone's experience can be different on this. On my 700 hp 346 inch small block the higher you crank the vacuum the more horsepower you get. My memory fails me on the specifics but I think at 10" its worth about 10 HP and if I went to Pro Stock territory over 15. My biggest issue has been getting the engine really sealed up to hold vacuum. I ended up getting a cheap smoke system to test for leaks to prevent the dreaded dyno embarrassment. That all being said I have seen many knowledgeable folks like yourself with experiences exactly like yours. However I think its something anyone serious should at least try, especially if they have a light ring pack. Bill
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: RustyM]
#2735253
01/21/20 12:38 PM
01/21/20 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,279 United Socialist States of Ame...
tboomer
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,279
United Socialist States of Ame...
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for us: 3450 lbs car and driver, 512 .indy heads etc: Removing mechanical fan and going electric, dropped a .02 et Wilson ported intake , dropped just shy of a tenth. new converter, cope racing trans- dropped et and improved 60ft. Dual adjustable front shocks and single adjustable rears - improved 60 ft and et. Data gathering of afr/vacuum/rpm allowed us to tune and really made us consistent and faster. Went from 6.72 to a best of 6.38 and car is really consistent in running what Da allows. ( 1/8 mile numbers)
Other than that, just a basic/solid built 511 , low maintenance set up . Curious here...What is your 60'...
Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2735294
01/21/20 02:56 PM
01/21/20 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,079 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,079
Tulsa OK
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Just a few things I can think of right now that I've seen from running my own stuff...
3. Zero difference b/t spark plug wires. MSD, Taylor, and Firecore...pick the ones that LOOK good to you, b/c they will run the same. I think the ignition market has more gimmick sales pitches than any other...well, maybe motor oil has more.
I think there is lots of re boxing there. That wire has uses for industrial stuff and I am sure the Ignition guys just pick out a wire they like and then build stuff from there. Whoever actually makes the wire is probably way larger than MSD or Taylor or FireCore. I bought some summit branded cut to fit stuff for my coil near plug setup. $43 nice quality wire that has to be made by Taylor or whoever makes Taylor's stuff. The boot style, wire color, and feel sure feel like Taylor or whomever makes wire for Taylor. Note: I am no expert so nobody get upset because its just my observation lol
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2735304
01/21/20 03:22 PM
01/21/20 03:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804
Wichita
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Just a few things I can think of right now that I've seen from running my own stuff...
3. Zero difference b/t spark plug wires. MSD, Taylor, and Firecore...pick the ones that LOOK good to you, b/c they will run the same. I think the ignition market has more gimmick sales pitches than any other...well, maybe motor oil has more.
I think there is lots of re boxing there. That wire has uses for industrial stuff and I am sure the Ignition guys just pick out a wire they like and then build stuff from there. Whoever actually makes the wire is probably way larger than MSD or Taylor or FireCore. I bought some summit branded cut to fit stuff for my coil near plug setup. $43 nice quality wire that has to be made by Taylor or whoever makes Taylor's stuff. The boot style, wire color, and feel sure feel like Taylor or whomever makes wire for Taylor. Note: I am no expert so nobody get upset because its just my observation lol I went from Taylors to Firecore. Zero difference in performance but the Firecore fit is PERFECT out of the box! Very happy with those wires for that reason alone.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: GY3]
#2735308
01/21/20 03:32 PM
01/21/20 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,079 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,079
Tulsa OK
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Just a few things I can think of right now that I've seen from running my own stuff...
3. Zero difference b/t spark plug wires. MSD, Taylor, and Firecore...pick the ones that LOOK good to you, b/c they will run the same. I think the ignition market has more gimmick sales pitches than any other...well, maybe motor oil has more.
I think there is lots of re boxing there. That wire has uses for industrial stuff and I am sure the Ignition guys just pick out a wire they like and then build stuff from there. Whoever actually makes the wire is probably way larger than MSD or Taylor or FireCore. I bought some summit branded cut to fit stuff for my coil near plug setup. $43 nice quality wire that has to be made by Taylor or whoever makes Taylor's stuff. The boot style, wire color, and feel sure feel like Taylor or whomever makes wire for Taylor. Note: I am no expert so nobody get upset because its just my observation lol I went from Taylors to Firecore. Zero difference in performance but the Firecore fit is PERFECT out of the box! Very happy with those wires for that reason alone. There is no doubt they pump out some nice stuff. But the ready made kits for small block Mopars with GM LS Truck coils is pretty slim haha.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: dvw]
#2735584
01/22/20 01:07 PM
01/22/20 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537
Las Vegas
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Interesting replies here, in terms of what some see and not "worth it" versus what others results have been. I think a caveat to the question should be what is the intended purpose of the engine and race program. I certainly will approach a 10 second bracket build differently that a heads up car. I think this is a VERY valid argument to be made. Yes we still approach the 10 second bracket build with the same professionalism but there are things you simply DO NOT need to do to build something that will live in that world that you absolutely MUST DO in a heads up deal. Intended purpose and goals is what matter. Having said that round is round, flat is flat and that will never change. Quality machine work is always important no matter the level. And often times is the difference between that 500" Indy motor that runs mid 10's vs the one that runs mid 9's with basically the same components. There is power in things as simple as a valve job. Properly matched components in another issue that I see a lot of. Lastly I don't think most people who are looking to get everything out of a combo are willing to pout in the time and testing it takes to separate themselves from the rest.
As for what I've seen work in terms of performance or longevity, most have been mentioned. Center counter weight cranks, proper lifter location and angle, bigger cam cores, hipped blocks/heads, smaller ring pack, lighter/stronger pistons, valvetrain CONTROL, cylinder head development(this NEVER ends), intake evolution(also NEVER ends), more compression ESPECIALLY in aluminum blocks(numbers that most we be scared of), oil control, oil pressure, oil viscosities, carburetion(see heads and intake) are just a few of the things I have seen that make a difference. Not even to get into torque converters, low friction transmission and ratios, low friction third members and =gear treatments and fluids, low friction bearings in the drivetrain, chassis tuning etc etc
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: dvw]
#2735614
01/22/20 02:53 PM
01/22/20 02:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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The same things do not apply equally to every engine, or even engine type. Useful stuff also varies widely as to benefit per dollar spent.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: sasquatch]
#2735891
01/23/20 05:36 PM
01/23/20 05:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,514 Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,514
Martinsville, IN
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Best bang for the buck is Take Weight out of the car, followed by take more weight out of the car, and finally remove weight from the car...... And lets be honest sometimes taking weight out of the car means taking weight off of us.
Last edited by cdwmotorsports; 01/23/20 05:36 PM.
eBay-cdwmotorsports
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: 73DAD]
#2735913
01/23/20 07:50 PM
01/23/20 07:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,184 East Coast
A/MP
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,184
East Coast
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Glyptal or other coatings in engines for oil drainback. Anybody ever test to see if there is a significant difference? I use to do that a lot. One build had the Glyptol come off in sheets. I'm very particular about the metal prep before painting the inside. There is such a thing as oil impregnating the iron. Found this on other industrial iron that I had painted in the past. I now remove all the foundry flashing and prep whatever I can to make the cast iron as smooth as possible. Prep time vs the price of Glyptol is worth it.
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Re: Race Engine reality, what works
[Re: dizuster]
#2736114
01/24/20 01:20 PM
01/24/20 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786
Portage,michigan
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Biggest changes i have consistently seen always involve heads and cam matched nicely, along with torque convertor. Such changes can often result in huge gains. Last time i saw such big changes was with current car. Stock shortblock 360 with factory a mile in the hole slugs, 750 carb, 4.10 gear, comp cams generic flat tappet 280 ish advertized cam, stock eddie heads( looked over and checked before use. This combo what was in my current car when i bought it. Took it to the track on a good air day, 12.20’s at 108-109
Took heads off, whacked 40 thou off, had them mildly ported in quickie single evening type job, installed a known good 950 carb i had, installed Howards flat tappet closer to what i thought would make more power, and returned to the track with just those mods...... Milled and lightly ported heads, cam swap, carb swap 11.20’s at almost 119 after little tuning....in good air Good heads, matching cam, good carb, bit more compression... Full second and 10 mph Same gears, vert, headers, weight, etc, etc
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car Best so far, 10.32 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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