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anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger #2731455
01/09/20 02:49 PM
01/09/20 02:49 PM
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British Columbia
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yellowgtx Offline OP
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British Columbia
I am old school so still love my 440,s. I also love the new Challengers. I see a lot of the 2008-2010's around pretty cheap. I have a few 440's kicking around. I am not worried about the mechanical part of fitting it in. I am worried about the stock Challenger running without been hooked to a motor. easy enough to wire up the old 440 to start and charge etc. independent of the Challenger wiring. I will admit I know nothing about new fuel injection and new car electronics.
Will one of these new Challengers even run without the 5.7 in it.
Anybody do this reverse mod? I have been accused of been AS* backwards lots of time, so nothing new.
Thanks


After almost 71 years I am on my last car. A 65 Plymouth Satellite straight axle altered wheel base car.
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2731478
01/09/20 04:02 PM
01/09/20 04:02 PM
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Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Irving, TX
The rest of the electronics will be looking for the engine controller. You would have to find a way to make it think it was still running the engine.

The gains to be had from a 440 swap would be off idle low end torque.

The losses to be had from such a swap would be everything except off idle low end torque.

As much as I love my 440s I have decided that the Imperial's 440 is the last old motor I'm building. The only reason I didn't go Gen 3 on this build was the desire for 500+ lb/ft below 3000 rpm.
There is simply too much to be gained from using 50 years newer technology.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2731520
01/09/20 06:40 PM
01/09/20 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
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Greenville, PA
redraptor Offline
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I agree with feets, there's nothing to be gained by this. But if you insist on a swap I would suggest studying the drag pak cars that came out back then make your own toy.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: redraptor] #2731527
01/09/20 06:54 PM
01/09/20 06:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15,992
RI Deep in the rust belt
chargervert Offline
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It would be an upgrade to a V6 modern Challenger, but modern Hemi Challengers could easily be modified to make more power than even a stout 440 can put out. And to do a swap would need a fuel injection system and ignition system that could be made compatible with the cars electrical system. It would be cool to see someone do it though!


70 Charger R/T SE 472 Hemi 70 Charger R/T convertible 70 Charger R/T V Code Sixpack 69 Charger R/T SE Sunroofcar 68 Charger 383 68 Charger 318 71 Charger R/T 70 Challenger convertible 71 Challenger convertible 71 Cuda 340 09 Challenger R/T Classic
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2731548
01/09/20 07:26 PM
01/09/20 07:26 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
Unless you are building a tube chassis race car I would say it's a total waste of time and money. I have been accused of that a few times though so follow your dreams.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2731557
01/09/20 08:05 PM
01/09/20 08:05 PM
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Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum Offline
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The front springs will need some serious upgrading to deal with 800lbs of cast iron.


69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: Magnum] #2731581
01/09/20 09:39 PM
01/09/20 09:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
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Ontario, Canada
Do you live where they check emissions controls? You'd have a fun time making a 440 compliant to the current standards.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: Stanton] #2731592
01/09/20 10:02 PM
01/09/20 10:02 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 171
Las Vegas, NV
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chargerbr549 Offline
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Las Vegas, NV
I think its a pretty cool idea for more of a hot rod since old iron anymore is getting to be pretty pricey anymore, for me I would keep it simple since I already have a couple of carbed 500+ cu in. big blocks (love the simplicity and Torque!) and the modern trans tunnels are fairly large to install an overdrive if a person wants to got that way then you have a more modern suspension. The issue of the electronics would be the tough part for me to figure out.

Here in Las Vegas with the emissions testing crap there wouldn't be anyway for you to legally license this for highway use unfortunately.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: chargerbr549] #2731603
01/09/20 10:22 PM
01/09/20 10:22 PM
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Posts: 900
Washington
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hemienvy Offline
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Washington
Here's an idea. Just an idea.
I considered this many moons ago, and not just for emissions reasons.
What about running the engine on propane at idle and low load ? Some kind of manual switching
between propane and gasoline. You would only carry a small propane tank, not big enough
to drive 300 miles (unless that's what you truly want).
Running on propane is virtually zero emissions.

Actually, my original idea was to run a Six-Pack deal, with the center "carb" running on propane.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: hemienvy] #2731648
01/10/20 08:15 AM
01/10/20 08:15 AM

R
RWG75
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RWG75
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Without really thinking about it much, I kinda like the idea of down grading a late model. The first thing you'll need to do is come up with a catchy term for it. New tech in old cars is restomod, what are we gonna call this? DevoMod maybe. Bonus points if you get the reference.

If the aesthetic here is an embracing of the modern body while rejecting the technology then I think the answer to the CAN bus problem is give it a complete lobotomy. When you rip out the engine controller, rip out the trans controller, body controller, digital dash and whatever the hell else is tied it. Drop in a 727, auto meter gauges and build a wire harness like you would to rewire an old car. Hooking up the air bags would probably be the biggest "fight the electronics" issue. On the emissions side, your local dictatorship may vary but here in PA if you run it less than 5,000 miles per year it's completely exempt from emission testing regardless of model year.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: ] #2731666
01/10/20 10:07 AM
01/10/20 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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S.E. Michigan
Last reply is the path of least resistance, and the Devo reference is priceless.

Gut all the electronics out, throw the abs systems and safety equipment in the garbage and start over.

Wire the windows as shown on page 10 of the little manual my cohorts and I wrote, using p5155318 and 19 door modules.

https://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/300/312/312-P5155775.pdf

You need to have "smart glass" so the windows will seal when the door is opened and closed.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: ZIPPY] #2731686
01/10/20 11:00 AM
01/10/20 11:00 AM
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Eagle, Idaho
Neil Online content
The Doctor is in.
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Eagle, Idaho
I'd put a used NASCAR small block in one before I did a 440.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2731735
01/10/20 01:06 PM
01/10/20 01:06 PM
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Holland MI Ottawa
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2boltmain Offline
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I like the idea of old in the new. A 440 and 727 in a newer Challenger is fine in my book. Save you thousands over doing up an original plus any collision shop can fix the modern Challenger. You'd have to eliminate all the modern electronics and wire up all your instrumentation with aftermarket gauges. would be a lot of work replacing new tech with old but not impossible. I spoke to a gent at the dragstrip in 2019 who had a 2015 Camaro with old skool carbureted small block and Turbo 350. Yes it was a drag only car but looked nice and he said it wouldn't be a stretch to make it street legal. The car was a stolen recovered insurance buy missing its engine and trans but the body was still like new. Said it was much less $$ to go this route than an actual pre 70 Camaro.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2731988
01/10/20 10:01 PM
01/10/20 10:01 PM
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Tri-Cities, Washington
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VITC_GTX Offline
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I asked this question about a year or two after the new Challenger came out.

I was voted off the island, booed off the stage and my parents marital status during my birth was put into question.

I still think it would be cool if someone could pull it off.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: VITC_GTX] #2732018
01/11/20 12:05 AM
01/11/20 12:05 AM
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Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
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I like old school but I don't see the point. Why go 440 when there's there's so many new hemi choices now that make more power, better mileage, better running..

Since you already have the engines and say you can get the car for a good price if you want it just go for it. DOn't need much to get an old engine running and whatever systems in the car are looking for inputs that no longer exist remove them.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: ZIPPY] #2732060
01/11/20 09:06 AM
01/11/20 09:06 AM

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RWG75
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Originally Posted by ZIPPY


You need to have "smart glass" so the windows will seal when the door is opened and closed.



Smart glass is stupid. The only explanation I've ever heard for it is to make the glass seal better. The frameless windows on my 45 year old cars still seal just fine so not buying that one. Ever try opening one when it's got a coating of ice on it and the window won't go down?

end tangent.

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: ] #2732089
01/11/20 11:01 AM
01/11/20 11:01 AM
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Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR Offline
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Count me in the "I think it would be cool" group. I gave passing thought to it several years ago and there seem to be more early models popping up every day w/ bad engines for cheap. work Modern Hemi's are cool and the power you can make with them is almost unbelievable BUT it's kinda hard to beat the cool factor of a tunnel ram and 2-4's sticking out of the hood, be it a SB or a BB. boogie Personally, I don't think it would be that hard. As said, rip out the new electronics and go to town. I'm sure that if you were so inclined, you could even have functional a/c, ps, and pb. up



Tim


'71 Charger 383/727
'17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car wink )
Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: yellowgtx] #2732097
01/11/20 11:35 AM
01/11/20 11:35 AM
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Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
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67_Satellite Offline
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Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
Sell the spare parts and build a big inch G3 Hemi. Inches are inches, only the modern ones will breathe much cheaper. Fitment will be much easier. Aftermarket support will be available.Why try to re-invent the already new and improved wheel?(2cents)

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: 67_Satellite] #2732191
01/11/20 05:20 PM
01/11/20 05:20 PM
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Freeport IL USA
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I think I'd want to know if the front suspension could handle the additional weight. Then again, if you got rid of all the computers and wiring, maybe there wouldn't be much weight difference. work

Then the next deal would be the brake system. You will need to reroute all the brake lines to eliminate the computer controlled anti lock brake system currently on the car. Its not like the early days when you just bypassed the thing above the rear end and ran a single line to the rear axle. you get to start at the master cylinder and work from there. My concern would be if these massive brakes will work without all the computer assist.
Beyond that, everything electrical inside the car has to be changed to old school. You might want to look at a flood car, clean up the body, trash everything inside of it, and build from there.
Then, as long as you can drive it where you don't need to pass any kind of vehicle inspection or emission testing you might be OK, because it would never pass the visual inspection, let along an actual emission test.

Of course, when you do this, we will all want to watch the process in pictures. Then we will be able to decide if we want to put this muck work into a project like this. Gene

Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger [Re: poorboy] #2732359
01/12/20 04:46 AM
01/12/20 04:46 AM
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Phoenix, AZ
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Phoenix, AZ
I suspect that the brakes would work the same, they just wouldn't have the anti-lock feature. They are still vacuum assisted and hydraulically operated, right?

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