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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: Uberpube]
#2730698
01/07/20 01:09 AM
01/07/20 01:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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No, but actually it made quite a bit more power stock than I thought it would. Compression measured 7.4:1. It made 453 ft lbs @ 3200 RPM and 320 HP @4300 RPM with 35 degrees of timing and 458 ft lbs @ 3100 and 328 HP @ 4400 with 41 degrees. Stock with headers and comp 911s. No accessories with an electric water pump.
Dulcich picked a Thumpr grind for it, 227/241 @ .050 on a 107, installed at 101. And they added an Eddy RPM and 850 Holley. It made 477 ft lbs @ 3500 and 382 hp @ 4900.
It'd be really interesting to see what getting the compression to just 8.5 or 9:1 would do.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/07/20 01:09 AM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: Uberpube]
#2730732
01/07/20 09:42 AM
01/07/20 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838
S.E. Michigan
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Cole Slaw, okay sure. Nat King Cole, well yeah of course. Notes(?)
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: rustbuckett68]
#2730763
01/07/20 11:47 AM
01/07/20 11:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,254
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,254
IL
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I always enjoy watching EM, but that episode wasn't very useful since they made all the changes at once. The really old MM article that went from 'mild to wild' step by step is much more informative.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: rustbuckett68]
#2730764
01/07/20 11:49 AM
01/07/20 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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I'll admit I did not know what the title meant either until OP clarified. But it looks like Coles Notes was the ORIGINAL. Cliffsnotes came about after Cliff bought out Coles.
Last I knew they were now usually Spark Notes.
But does anyone care about the Thumpr cammed 440?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: GTX MATT]
#2730774
01/07/20 12:37 PM
01/07/20 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491
So. Burlington, Vt.
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anyone care about the Thumpr cammed 440? Especially a 7.4:1 example. The “great” thing about that type of combo..... especially when using a cam with extra ex duration....... is how bright the headers glow when your rolling down the highway at 2700rpm.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2730839
01/07/20 03:52 PM
01/07/20 03:52 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Torquemonster440
member
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member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
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I think he could have made a better choice than that Thumper cam. Those always seem like a gimmick first
and performance second. A cam targeted towards maximizing that combo would have performed better than a cam
targeted at making a lumpy idle.
1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: Torquemonster440]
#2730841
01/07/20 04:03 PM
01/07/20 04:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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I think he could have made a better choice than that Thumper cam. Those always seem like a gimmick first
and performance second. A cam targeted towards maximizing that combo would have performed better than a cam
targeted at making a lumpy idle.
I had Oregon cam grinders spec a hyd. Roller for a motorhome 440 with 440 source heads. It was a low buck deal. Their recommendation was a 230/239@050 .525/.540 on 112lsa install at 108. I used this cam later in a 9.5 to 1 motor with sidewinder heads. It made 490hp/554tq. I feel a tighter cam would work better in the current combo. Not sure what it would of done in the low comp 440.
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: Torquemonster440]
#2730849
01/07/20 04:29 PM
01/07/20 04:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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I think he could have made a better choice than that Thumper cam. Those always seem like a gimmick first
and performance second. A cam targeted towards maximizing that combo would have performed better than a cam
targeted at making a lumpy idle.
Dulcich said he picked it for the specs but I agree. I think they would have done better on the HP number with something else, on a different ICL too. As noted IVC is early with those specs on a 101 ICL, its actually 1.5 degrees earlier than the stock cam, so maybe thats why the HP peak didn't move up too much (500 RPM)
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: GTX MATT]
#2730858
01/07/20 05:13 PM
01/07/20 05:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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I went back and read an old thread from Jim Laroy on FBBO. He tested something similar. His torque and power numbers were down quite a bit from what EM had stock. Jim used the smaller Summit cam (6400) and with headers and a 750 carb Jim had 432 ft lbs @ 2500 RPM and 297 HP @ 4300 RPM. Maybe it was because Jim used step headers. Jim if you're reading this did you have accessories on that engine? With the 509 cam and M1 intake Jim made a similar HP number (387) at 4900 RPM. I guess 4900 RPM might just be where the stock heads finally choke you out no matter where you put the IVC. https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/dyno-testing-a-stock-1972-440.249866/page-2
Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/07/20 05:19 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: Uberpube]
#2730861
01/07/20 05:31 PM
01/07/20 05:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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As the title says, was there anything earth shattering in the 440 episodes? Of course not. What it does show is that these old 440s cam still make some decent power on a serious budget. I personally think it makes decent power for what it is. 227@050 is a very mild cam, regardless of the overlap and exhaust duration. This motor could go into a tow rig or a bracket car and work well. I thought it was a cool dyno session, although I would of liked to see what some heads could of done next.
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: lewtot184]
#2730906
01/07/20 08:22 PM
01/07/20 08:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,456
oklahoma
forphorty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,456
oklahoma
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installing that cam at 101 is going to close the intake valve very early. this will up the cylinder pressure a bunch compared to a stock cam. In a follow-up on Instagram, Dulcich said he swapped to a Holley SD, "no change". Changed the ICL from 101 to 107, made 392 hp.
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Re: Engine masters 440 Coles notes
[Re: GTX MATT]
#2730914
01/07/20 08:48 PM
01/07/20 08:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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I went back and read an old thread from Jim Laroy on FBBO. He tested something similar. His torque and power numbers were down quite a bit from what EM had stock. Jim used the smaller Summit cam (6400) and with headers and a 750 carb Jim had 432 ft lbs @ 2500 RPM and 297 HP @ 4300 RPM. Maybe it was because Jim used step headers. Jim if you're reading this did you have accessories on that engine? With the 509 cam and M1 intake Jim made a similar HP number (387) at 4900 RPM. I guess 4900 RPM might just be where the stock heads finally choke you out no matter where you put the IVC. https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/dyno-testing-a-stock-1972-440.249866/page-2 No accessories just running the electric water pump. We had no time for tuning as all the changes had to be made in one day with an audience watching and guessing what horsepower and torque each change would make. The fun swap was the last one when we went from the stock 906 heads to the mildly ported 516 heads (250 cfm @ .500") and the horsepower jumped all the way from 387 to 449. We did something similar with a sub 10:1 440 making 404 HP and 483 TQ and took it to 658 HP and 552 TQ.
Last edited by LaRoy Engines; 01/07/20 09:00 PM.
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