Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
#2728947
01/01/20 12:58 PM
01/01/20 12:58 PM
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360view
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30368903/mazda-mx-30-ev-vs-diesel-emissions/Sample quote Mazda is suggesting what no automaker wants to sanction: that lithium-ion batteries degrade over time, reducing performance and range, to the point where it could negatively affect long-term ownership. There aren't enough EVs with six-figure mileage to say for sure, but it seems accurate that fast charging, depleting the battery to empty, and age can all reduce battery health. Mazda is also suggesting another hot take: EVs with large batteries are bigger polluters over their life cycles than EVs with smaller batteries. This makes sense, given the energy needed to replenish a battery at several times the capacity of the MX-30. Mazda cites a life cycle assessment by the journal Sustainability and quotes an unnamed figure of the European Union's average CO2 emissions from producing electricity in 2016 to say all this. Yes, diesel cars pollute with other gases and particulates at the tailpipe that EVs don't. But at least the CO2 emissions from driving an EV are mostly understood, since battery-electric cars can only run as clean as the local electrical grid. Then there's the humane problem of people in poor countries mining rare-earth minerals, and the environmental impact of extracting lithium. End quote
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: 360view]
#2729000
01/01/20 02:45 PM
01/01/20 02:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Many have been saying this for a very long time but of course the greenies tend to ignore reality.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: 360view]
#2729009
01/01/20 03:06 PM
01/01/20 03:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
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Yes, diesel cars pollute with other gases and particulates at the tailpipe that EVs don't. Let's assume that over the lifetime use of vehicle, EVs and ICEs have the exact same CO2 emissions. The EVs still win because the bulk of their emissions generally aren't in populated areas where people have to breath the exhaust, and then have the subsequent health issues (and if they don't have health insurance, the rest of us get to cover their health care costs anyways, but I digress...). But in reality, EVs, especially when produced using renewables, have lower lifetime emissions, in addition to not making exhaust in populated areas. https://insideevs.com/news/382257/eqc-reduce-co2-70-percent/While some current batteries from some manufacturers are pretty terrible and may need replaced to restore range, it won't be like that forever. Tesla is working on a million mile battery right now. They're already good for 500k miles.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: 360view]
#2729036
01/01/20 03:57 PM
01/01/20 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,818 East Bay, N. Cal.
calmopar
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,818
East Bay, N. Cal.
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Solar energy (PV/wind/etc) "charging" a flywheel-driven car is the way to go.
Trying to enjoy life!
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: SRT6776]
#2729049
01/01/20 04:18 PM
01/01/20 04:18 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,497 nowhere
Sniper
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I wouldnt believe anything Musk says. He'll say and do literally anything to pump up the stock price - loves to "debut" vehicles that are nowhere near production or even have a place to be built either, I can't believe so many people are that easily fooled. I've made more than a few dollars buying and short Tesla stock based on Musk's antics. I bought on his "funding secured" claim, then sold and shorted it in time for the SEC to come out with it's investigation statement. Plenty of instances of that happening. Musk wild claim, buy and sit for a day or two, sell and then reality hits and short it for a day or two and cover. Wee.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#2729087
01/01/20 05:56 PM
01/01/20 05:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Yes, diesel cars pollute with other gases and particulates at the tailpipe that EVs don't. Let's assume that over the lifetime use of vehicle, EVs and ICEs have the exact same CO2 emissions. The EVs still win because the bulk of their emissions generally aren't in populated areas where people have to breath the exhaust, and then have the subsequent health issues (and if they don't have health insurance, the rest of us get to cover their health care costs anyways, but I digress...). But in reality, EVs, especially when produced using renewables, have lower lifetime emissions, in addition to not making exhaust in populated areas. https://insideevs.com/news/382257/eqc-reduce-co2-70-percent/While some current batteries from some manufacturers are pretty terrible and may need replaced to restore range, it won't be like that forever. Tesla is working on a million mile battery right now. They're already good for 500k miles. Right, because we all know power plants are out in the middle of nowhere.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: Jjs72D]
#2729155
01/01/20 09:24 PM
01/01/20 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,828 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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I think that anyone who lives in a large urban center should be forced to buy an EV. If what said above is a positive, that the bulk of emissions are in these areas, then eliminate all ICE vehicles in cities and let us drive whatever the heck we want everywhere else...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: 360view]
#2729218
01/02/20 01:03 AM
01/02/20 01:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,200 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
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The calculations are pretty complex but that sounds about right. Electric cars move the smokestack somewhere else but don't eliminate it, at least not today. But electric cars can be charged at night which helps to even out the grid so that is good.
I've had a Leaf for a few years now and I think electric cars are great for a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with pollution or being "green". Almost zero maintenance, charge at home, quiet, simple, no warm up period, lots of torque at low speed, heater and defrost blow hot as soon as you start the car, no exhaust system to rot out, brakes last a long time due to regen braking, used EVs are super cheap to buy, etc.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: Rhinodart]
#2729245
01/02/20 03:40 AM
01/02/20 03:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
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I think that anyone who lives in a large urban center should be forced to buy an EV. If what said above is a positive, that the bulk of emissions are in these areas, then eliminate all ICE vehicles in cities and let us drive whatever the heck we want everywhere else... That's more or less what some areas are doing by announcing ICE bans in urban areas in the future. But, I don't really like that idea, since by the time the bans go into affect (2030+), EVs should be much more competitive with ICEs, so like Andy, they'll be bought because they're better, not just because of pollution or a desire to "go green". I've had a Leaf for a few years now and I think electric cars are great for a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with pollution or being "green". Almost zero maintenance, charge at home, quiet, simple, no warm up period, lots of torque at low speed, heater and defrost blow hot as soon as you start the car, no exhaust system to rot out, brakes last a long time due to regen braking, used EVs are super cheap to buy, etc. I see these future bans as furthering a sort of "urban vs rural" divide, which leads to opinions like this: If I knew that electric vehicles did not mean the end of gasoline powered vehicles, I'd sure have more of an open mind to them. I can see a point in the future where EVs are price and usefulness comparable, so most people will choose them, at least for daily drivers. At that point, the remaining emissions from the ICE vehicles shouldn't be enough to really worry about.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: 360view]
#2729339
01/02/20 02:00 PM
01/02/20 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: 360view]
#2729352
01/02/20 02:22 PM
01/02/20 02:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
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hooziewhatsit
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...ns-are-full-for-electric-mustang-mach-e/Ford Motor Co said on Monday reservations were full for the high-end Mustang Mach-E First Edition electric sport utility vehicle.
Ford did not provide details on how many reservations it took for the First Edition, which sells for about $60,000, but has said global production in the first 12 months for all versions of the Mach-E is limited to 50,000 vehicles.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: theraif]
#2729405
01/02/20 05:13 PM
01/02/20 05:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Here
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So how accurate is that an EV battery's lifev is really just dependent on rate of charge, depth of charge, temp?, rate of discharge, and charge cycles? Seems like an on board real time display of calculated used lifetime battery life would be rather useful, since so many here are mentioning miles on an EV, which means relatively little it seems..
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: jcc]
#2729408
01/02/20 05:17 PM
01/02/20 05:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,909 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,909
Kirkland, Washington
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So how accurate is that an EV battery's lifev is really just dependent on rate of charge, depth of charge, temp?, rate of discharge, and charge cycles? Seems like an on board real time display of calculated used lifetime battery life would be rather useful, since so many here are mentioning miles on an EV, which means relatively little it seems.. All those are factors that affect life. Same with your cordless power tools and laptops etc. Age and temp are big factors. Seems like an algorithm wouldn’t be that hard to incorporate many of the variables and display some sort of ‘remaining life’ metric, but automakers might be slow to embrace that idea. A calculation of total charging and discharging watts would cool.
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Re: Mazda clarifies its EV creates diesel-like emissions
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2729410
01/02/20 05:24 PM
01/02/20 05:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
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I'm pretty sure the current EVs do have a readout of battery capacity remaining/range at full charge. Leaf's have some sort of battery bar width. Tesla's show the current max range whenever you charge to 100% (I think it shows an estimated max range when you charge to lower amounts too, or you just do the math, xxx miles at 90% charge is yyy at 100% charge). https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielc...sed-1-million-mile-battery/#13d2bf0333e3
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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