Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
No power brakes. #2727860
12/28/19 10:22 PM
12/28/19 10:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597
R
robertop Offline OP
mopar
robertop  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597

I recently lost breaking power from my power brakes while on the road. Now, before taking action, I have this question: how to find out if it's the power booster or the master cylinder. With the engine off the brake pedal is solid, but with the engine on the pedal goes all the way to the floor with no braking action. The car is a 69 bird; I was sure it's the master cylinder, but now I better ask! Thank you guys.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: robertop] #2727861
12/28/19 10:27 PM
12/28/19 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,652
Hamtramck, PA
A
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,652
Hamtramck, PA
Do you hear any hissing?

Cracked or loose check valve or vacuum hose?

Check the rubber grommet for the check valve, they can split too.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: Alaskan_TA] #2727913
12/29/19 08:18 AM
12/29/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
i think you may have a hydraulic leak. look for fluid.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: lewtot184] #2727944
12/29/19 10:57 AM
12/29/19 10:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
D
dragon slayer Offline
pro stock
dragon slayer  Offline
pro stock
D

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
Sounds more like the MC and down stream then the booster based on your symptoms.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: dragon slayer] #2728079
12/29/19 06:30 PM
12/29/19 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376
Omaha Ne
You didn't say how high the pedal is with the engine off. You can pump it several time to bleed off the existing vacuum. Then apply pressure to the pedal and start the motor. The pedal should drop a bit with the power assist (vacuum) but not go to the floor

I'm going to say master is bypassing internally or you have an external leak somewhere in the system. Check the fluid level as that may indicate which 1/2 of the system if it is a leak.
The pedal should not go to the floor unless there is a loss of pressure in the system twocents beer

Re: No power brakes. [Re: TJP] #2728171
12/29/19 11:33 PM
12/29/19 11:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote
I'm going to say master is bypassing internally or you have an external leak somewhere in the system.
X2


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: No power brakes. [Re: RapidRobert] #2728284
12/30/19 12:36 PM
12/30/19 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,789
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,789
A collage of whims
My only experience with a booster going bad was with a nearly new Z28 decades ago.
Brakes were normal starting out, failure was kinda sudden; pedal went nearly to the floor and it took A LOT of effort to stop.
Nothing really visible but turned out the canister halves hadn't been properly staked together and one rotated just enough.
That's 1 car out of about 90 that I've had, though maybe half have had manual brakes...

If you can apply a vacuum test to the booster, that'll tell you, but if it's total failure, it's more likely hydraulic.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: topside] #2728357
12/30/19 05:38 PM
12/30/19 05:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597
R
robertop Offline OP
mopar
robertop  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597
Ok, guys, thank you for your answers. Let me add few things: there in no leaking fluid in the master cylinder, that is still full. Second the vacuum hose going to the booster is brand new, and with the engine off the brake pedal does not move at all or or at least maybe 1/4 inch. The master cylinder was rebuilt many years ago but never installed until few months ago. So was the booster. Since I started driving (3 months or so) the brakes were very sensitive, to the point I had trouble modulating the pedal without locking the breaks every time, and then....and I repeat, when I start the engine the brake pedal can be pushed all the way to the floor, but no brakes. That' s about it, at least for now.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: robertop] #2728400
12/30/19 08:27 PM
12/30/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376
Omaha Ne
I am going with the MC is bypassing internally when the additional pressure from the booster is applied twocents beer

Re: No power brakes. [Re: TJP] #2728464
12/31/19 07:27 AM
12/31/19 07:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
D
dragon slayer Offline
pro stock
dragon slayer  Offline
pro stock
D

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
Some more info might be helpful, what type of brake set up, disc and drum, all drum, all disc. OEM or aftermarket. When you say lockup brakes early on was it just front, rear or both? Were brakes bled properly, was MC bled before install. To have no brakes at all and pedal go to floor, both piston seals Front and Rear would have to be leaking by. With lid off MC and pumping brakes can you see any swirl in the fluid coming from the larger fill holes in both chambers?

Re: No power brakes. [Re: dragon slayer] #2729374
01/02/20 03:40 PM
01/02/20 03:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597
R
robertop Offline OP
mopar
robertop  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597
Well guys, thank you all again for your answers. The car is a 69 Hemi roadrunner with power brakes and front discs. All the components are rebuilt originals with the exception of new discs, pads, and braking lines, with no aftermarket parts. I love the idea of checking engine vacuum ( the engine has a replacement stock-type cam), since the plastic port that connects to the intake manifold has an extra nipple just for that, all I need is to buy a small gauge and see. Meanwhile I will remove the MC and send it for rebuilt, just to be sure, because most of you seem to agree with me that is the problem.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: robertop] #2729389
01/02/20 04:35 PM
01/02/20 04:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
A
A727Tflite Offline
master
A727Tflite  Offline
master
A

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
If you have a mitey-vac remove the large line and plug the nipple. Attach the pump to the that check valve to either nipple and see if you can get the booster to hold vacuum. If it does the mc is your issue.

Re: No power brakes. [Re: A727Tflite] #2729484
01/02/20 09:40 PM
01/02/20 09:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 131
Conroe , Texas
I
iapco103 Offline
member
iapco103  Offline
member
I

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 131
Conroe , Texas
It sounds like the booster is no longer moving the m/c. I believe the booster has fallen apart internally.
You said the brakes were real touchy, that is a telling clue that the booster had a problem from the get-go.
Verify that the booster pushrod is still in contact with the m/c. Paul







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1