Sold a used item online. Value just under $1K. My asking price included shipping in US. Was "as is", no returns, paid for 11/20 by paypal, shipped 11/21 UPS, received sign for 11/25. I packed in original OEM box. Sent to a Suite address in NJ. Buyer had an Asian looking name. on 12/26 4:00am, I received a message stating item arrived, with damage, including 4 pics. Item looks almost non repairable. Box has some exterior damage.

Buyer does not know i insured item for $800, at my expense.

Today he wants one of three options, full refund, a $500 credit, or a Paypal dispute.

Not sure it matters, I wonder if buyer reshipped the item, its out of the country, might have been opened in customs, which accounts for the time delay,and the odd contact hours of messaging.

Who is on the hook here?

UPS always says item is not claimable as it was not packed correctly, and if dropped out of a truck, I would agree.

First things first ... what does UPS say ?

well, if he reshipped it overseas then it's on him.

If they reshipped it then its their problem, are they stating its from shipping or that you sent it that way?

Have UPS pick up the damaged item to confirm the package was not re-shipped.

If you have a good moral compass you should pay up other wise you are just a shady little rat!

moparpollack , did you not read the post? He was contacted a month after the item was received. How long do you think you should be responsible for supposed shipping damage? If I ship you something and you wait a month after getting it to complain you own it and that has nothing to do with a moral compass.

Oooooooops .... jsta lil BRAIN FADE on my part.

Customer has the widget for OVER A MONTH and then informs you of supposed damage ?

PayPal and UPS and YOU should tell this turkey to POUND SAND

jcc...Do an on line search and look up UPS damage claims. I shipped a Marshall combo amp to a tech who is a member here. They totally destroyed the amp. It was well packed but it looks like it was dropped off a cliff. The impact was so hard that the speaker magnet came off the speaker. Good luck as I hope you don't have to go against UPS. It is very rare to beat them.

t ..., beating UPS ? Rotsa ruck ! They will WEAR YOU OUT by jerking you around.

They lost a set of cast pistons on me and I jsta gave up.

I only deal with Fedex and USPS now

Buddy of mine had a transmission shipped to him by UPS. It was in a crate made from 2X4s and 1/2" plywood. It had had a forklift fork stuck through the crate and completely through the bellhousing. UPS tried to tell him it was that way when they picked it up. He did finally get paid, but it took almost 2 years.

Doc is correct.

I bought a guitar from a well known collector in California. He shipped it to my house in NJ. It had a broken headstock when it arrived. I called him to let him know and then I called UPS and they sent a guy to my house to take pictures and inspect the packaging and damage to the guitar.

They initially refused the claim. It took him about a year to get that settled. KNOW this. The purchaser of the insurance has to deal with the claim. He was a stand up guy and immediately sent me a identical guitar. (he had 4 at the time)

The UPS adjuster has to go to YOUR customers house to see the packaging and item. At least that's how it worked in my case.

1. Does the damage in the 4 pictures coincide with the box damage???
2. More information would be helpful: IE: what was it that was shipped, weight etc.
3. You say you shipped it in the OEM box, sometimes those are not sutable for shipping as they are sometimes crated or otherwise packed.
4. If re-shipped, opened by customs etc. pictures of the box should clearly show that.
5. Have UPS and Paypal get involved as already suggested.

remind me to never ship anything to you

It looks like he received it and then took a month to complain?

You say you took insurance on it so start a claim with UPS for the damage and see where it goes from there. All the experiences I've had with that it's the seller that needs to submit the claim and they're also the one who gets the check. I don't know how long you have to do that but if they blew it by waiting a month tough luck to the seller.

1. I just heard today about what the buyer is thinking as to resolution, meaning i'm assuming UPS is not reachable until Monday.
2. I understand the original box may not be the best container, but it looked fine, and was the original shipping box.
3. The items were two separately boxed and joined 12" speakers, package weight 54lbs
4. According to pics, there was obvious exterior box damage.
5. both speaker cones appeared to be almost completely destroyed, they are a plastic/carbon fiber material, but how exactly is not clear
6. I do have pics of perfect functional speakers pre shipping, but not sure that proves the way they went in the box.
7. The time delay seems to me to be buyers biggest unexplained hurdle.
8. I get UPS is not my friend in this matter.

What can I expect to be Paypals typical response before I start opening cans of worms here?

PayPal is on the side of the party receiving, NOT you. They will probably just reverse the charge & then you just got stuck. As far as UPS paying the claim, even though you had it insured, you are SOL as they will just say "improper packaging." If the claim was under $100.00, then they would probably just pay you, but since it's more, it's "improper packaging." FedEx is the SAME way - they are no better than UPS. They are so big & so powerful, they just do not care. Been there & done that. I do not take PayPal. If you take a credit card, then they will listen to your side of the story - it is not all one-sided like PayPal is. Good luck.

You need to confirm a few things, and these are the FIRST things you need to do -

The NJ address - was this a shipping company that forwards parcels overseas?

The signature - in NJ, I assume. Was this an agent for the buyer, or an agent for the shipper?

Did it go overseas? If it did, you are NOT responsible for the final condition, nor is UPS. Your responsibility, as did UPS's, ended at the shipping address in NJ. Anything beyond that is the responsibility of the shipper.

Domestically, UPS sOcks and you will not win. You have better chances winning the Mega-Million lottery. PayPal has a tendency to believe the buyer over the seller. In both cases, though, it should be noted that the complaint was issued a MONTH after it was 'signed' for. UPS and PayPal will most likely deny payment or coverage, and really, there is no need for you to cover it. For all you know, it could have arrived safely (assuming a true domestic delivery, but doubtful) and the new owners had a party with drunk revelers and the speakers were damaged there. Or on stage, when the lead guitar member smashed his guitar over the speakers. You just don't know.

I agree that the real issue is the condition of the package on the date it was signed for and in that location. If the package was forwarded after that, not your problem and no way for you to prove it was or wasn't. The loop hole likely used by UPS and every other carrier which works in your favor here is the delivery signature. Somewhere buried in the fine print is boiler plate text saying that the signature is an acknowledge that the package was received in acceptable condition. If you want to make a claim for shipping damage you have to do so when you receive the damaged package. Obviously doing so a month later is suspect.

Pics of the items before being packaged is great but like you said doesn't prove their in box condition. Pics of the final box before it leaves your possession could help prove that any dents / holes / whatever happened later.

It doesn't really go to your original question but my practice is to pack things with the expectation that they will fall off moving trucks. Too many minimum wage, minimum intelligence, minimum give a damn bodies in the process. When they run full truck loads between sorting locations they run a conveyer belt in to the trailer and the load gets hand stacked tetris style. Just one opportunity for it to fall on the floor and / or get kicked around.

to reply to the people who say UPS always wins i will say not always.
i will keep my story as short as possible to not hijack this thread.

about 8 years ago i bought a almost new full carbon fiber bicycle, including the wheels, at 80% off what it should have been worth.
it was packed by a bike shop then it was put in a wooden crate. when it was shipped UPS opened the box inspected and approved of the pack job, charged me a fee for that and shipped it insured for $3K. at the end of the line UPS drove over the bike with a truck. there were tire tracks over the crate when it was delivered. the truck must have been fully loaded because the crank, part between the pedals was bent significantly.
they initially claimed the usual bike was packed wrong. i informed them to be insured for anything over $500 THEY had to pack the item, this was the rule at the time to get insurance at the $$$ amount it was insured for. if they wanted to fight payment i would have no problem going to court. note...... i have a old HS classmate that works at a law firm that represents politicians. i didn't tell UPS this info.
UPS said good luck so my friend filed a lawsuit asking for damages, and punitive damages to cover attorney fees.
when i finally got my day in court. at the initial hearing UPS argued it wasn't packed properly. my attorney countered to insure item for the high $$$ it was insured at THEY had to pack the item. we produced a receipt with the additional fee i paid to do so and also showed the bent crank to the judge. after a few rounds of debates the judge held the bent crank up and asked the UPS attorneys what amount of packing would be required to prevent this damage. he also mentioned in his opinion you could drop the crank off a 20 story building and it wouldn't bend a crank like it was. he then gave a temporary recess for the attorneys to talk. after 20 min of discussion between attorneys, my attorney informed i would have my $$$ in a week.