Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
#2727100
12/26/19 04:02 PM
12/26/19 04:02 PM
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Posts: 9,099 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
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After some research and a few nudges (thank you HardcoreB!) towards using the 18725643 firing order on my next 511. I was thinking that perhaps I am not the only guy thinking about this upgrade (if it really is one) and that maybe we could get a deal on say 10 cores. If there is interest I will pursue the matter further.
Please feel free to disseminate any info you have on firing order swaps. At the "going rate" it is "only" $550 more, or about 2x the price of a custom solid roller. I was kind of against it based on sticker shock but then the little racer buddy on my shoulder reminded me of the other items that cost 2x parts that would have worked "just fine".
My reasoning for trying this is to reduce crank flex and to better distribute the load across the bearings.
Thanks for looking!
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2727107
12/26/19 04:18 PM
12/26/19 04:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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if you’re looking to have a run of cores made, you should check with whoever is making them, as I would assume they will likely want them all to be the same...... to be able to get a price break on them.
There isn’t a whole lot of latitude on how much you can change what the basic core is made like, for your finished product. It’s not as simple as a “firing order swap”.
If one guy wants a .425 lift 114 lsa cam, and another guy wants a .470 lift 110lsa cam..... that’s two different cores.
One core vs 10 cores....... what’s the price difference?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2727128
12/26/19 05:14 PM
12/26/19 05:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
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if you’re looking to have a run of cores made, you should check with whoever is making them, as I would assume they will likely want them all to be the same...... to be able to get a price break on them.
There isn’t a whole lot of latitude on how much you can change what the basic core is made like, for your finished product. It’s not as simple as a “firing order swap”.
If one guy wants a .425 lift 114 lsa cam, and another guy wants a .470 lift 110lsa cam..... that’s two different cores.
One core vs 10 cores....... what’s the price difference? That makes good sense. I wasn't 100% sure where the setup time was spend for tooling up an operation like that. I'd rather sound like an idiot here it's you folks are more forgiving : D
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2727133
12/26/19 05:33 PM
12/26/19 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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For that price, I would think you could get a tool steel billet. The “core” would be the same, as it is just a round chunk of steel.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: camastomcat]
#2727157
12/26/19 06:27 PM
12/26/19 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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semi finished cam core:
This is what most cam grinders start out with...... which they buy from a core manufacturer like Engine Power or Camshaft Machine Co.
If you want something that won’t fit on an available core, and they have to make it as a one off from a piece of bar stock...... it’s going to be expensive...... and a little time consuming. First, they make the core...... then they send it out for heat treating....... then when it comes back they rough in the profile..... then finish the profile. Not all can grinders have the equipment to build the core from scratch, in which case they will have to have it done by one of the core manufacturers........ then have it shipped in for them to put their profile onto it.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2727163
12/26/19 06:42 PM
12/26/19 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Tool steel cam starts as raw bar. Completely cnc machined start to finish, no heat treat. Usually done for higher end builds with unusual needs.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2727164
12/26/19 06:47 PM
12/26/19 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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TRENDZ
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A single odd ball cam out of tool steel would likely be cheaper than a single custom heat treated core. Maybe a 10 count would lower the price of the heat treat core.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2727165
12/26/19 06:47 PM
12/26/19 06:47 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Sounds like something that would be way more $$$ than what the OP is asking about.
With an even smaller number of places able to supply them.
What’s a tool steel cam cost?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2727167
12/26/19 06:52 PM
12/26/19 06:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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TRENDZ
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I was given a range of 1100-1500 for a low deck Dodge early hemi roller. Most of the bigger race cam companies can do them.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2727212
12/26/19 09:01 PM
12/26/19 09:01 PM
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jcc
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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A single odd ball cam out of tool steel would likely be cheaper than a single custom heat treated core. Maybe a 10 count would lower the price of the heat treat core. I agree, A roller cam core effectively starts out as a raw solid round bar anyway in most cases I believe.. And the cam core for the OP's stated reasoning, he should research further and understand some have chosen one additional firing order swap, (2/3 swap), which is the direction I am going, and doesn't coast a dollar more on the custom cam.
Last edited by jcc; 12/26/19 09:09 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2727228
12/26/19 10:30 PM
12/26/19 10:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Jeremiah
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I was given a range of 1100-1500 for a low deck Dodge early hemi roller. Most of the bigger race cam companies can do them. The question is...what firing order would you use?
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: jcc]
#2727230
12/26/19 10:33 PM
12/26/19 10:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
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A single odd ball cam out of tool steel would likely be cheaper than a single custom heat treated core. Maybe a 10 count would lower the price of the heat treat core. I agree, A roller cam core effectively starts out as a raw solid round bar anyway in most cases I believe.. And the cam core for the OP's stated reasoning, he should research further and understand some have chosen one additional firing order swap, (2/3 swap), which is the direction I am going, and doesn't coast a dollar more on the custom cam. My intention is to use do the 2/3 & 4/7 swap. I just had to use the LS firing order for this post.
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2727321
12/27/19 11:01 AM
12/27/19 11:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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If none of the core suppliers offer that as a normal semi finished core....... then it’s likely going to cost $850+ to get what you want.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: BradH]
#2727392
12/27/19 02:26 PM
12/27/19 02:26 PM
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Bad340fish
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I can't do any back to back but my current engine has a 4-7 swap and it is the smoothest running engine I have had. Comp suggested the swap because it was easier on the rear most crank journal and it moves the hot spot of two neighboring cylinders firing closer to the water exit.
Last edited by Bad340fish; 12/27/19 02:29 PM.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Group Buy RFC: 18725643 firing order BB roller cam cores
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2727402
12/27/19 02:43 PM
12/27/19 02:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I can't do any back to back but my current engine has a 4-7 swap and it is the smoothest running engine I have had. Comp suggested the swap because it was easier on the rear most crank journal and it moves the hot spot of two neighboring cylinders firing closer to the water exit. Not saying that you won't see ANY benefits. However, for the cost estimates being mentioned above, it doesn't sound like a good "bang for the buck" for the caliber of engines most of us on here build. I'm as guilty as anyone at spending money on the wrong things.
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