Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
#2724446
12/16/19 12:13 PM
12/16/19 12:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,158
God's Country - Etowah, TN.
A34
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,158
God's Country - Etowah, TN.
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Hey Guys, got a cam selection question. I’m not sure what to do. Here’s the situation:
The car is a 1969 Charger, 440, 4-spd with 4:10 gears. It is a stock restoration, meaning, stock exhaust manifolds, intake, carb, distributor, etc. The car was last driven about 20 years ago and only has around 1000 miles on it. Short block still looks good. Upon teardown to check everything after it’s long hibernation, it is .030 over and has forged pistons marked TRW L2266F.
The heads are stock 88cc 906's. Looking the pistons up, it says today's version are a 8.66:1 compression ratio with stock 88 cc heads. These pistons don't come up to deck height, so the engine is probably 8.66:1 compression.
The heads were in bad shape, so they were recently redone with a bigger intake valve. They are probably now 83-85 cc. I also had the block decked. Running a .020" steel head gasket, should give me about 9:1 compression if I keep these pistons.
My dilemma is, do I put new pistons in an otherwise good build, to bring it up to factory compression, or can I find a cam that will work with the existing engine and deliver the same or maybe just a little better performance than stock? I’m not expecting a race car, but I’d like it to perform equal to, or maybe a little better than in ’69.
Do you guys have a cam recommendation that will work with the restrictions above, but give the same or better than stock performance? This will be a weekend cruiser, that I will beat on, and I don't mind running good gas. I'm debating on the extra cost of new pistons/balance/cam to get good performance (ok, stock+ performance, not pull your eyeballs out acceleration performance, I know it has limitations) vs. keeping it as is and just getting a cam that will work with the current engine.
God Bless America, Our Troops and Their Families !
DEO VINDICE
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: A34]
#2724465
12/16/19 01:08 PM
12/16/19 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Dwayne Porter (fast68plymouth) is the man to talk to about this.
I can tell you that you're far better off changing to a KB quench pad piston if you want to retain the open chamber heads and drive this thing on pump gas.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: A34]
#2724466
12/16/19 01:09 PM
12/16/19 01:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Hey Guys, got a cam selection question. I’m not sure what to do. Here’s the situation:
The car is a 1969 Charger, 440, 4-spd with 4:10 gears. It is a stock restoration, meaning, stock exhaust manifolds, intake, carb, distributor, etc. The car was last driven about 20 years ago and only has around 1000 miles on it. Short block still looks good. Upon teardown to check everything after it’s long hibernation, it is .030 over and has forged pistons marked TRW L2266F.
The heads are stock 88cc 906's. Looking the pistons up, it says today's version are a 8.66:1 compression ratio with stock 88 cc heads. These pistons don't come up to deck height, so the engine is probably 8.66:1 compression.
The heads were in bad shape, so they were recently redone with a bigger intake valve. They are probably now 83-85 cc. I also had the block decked. Running a .020" steel head gasket, should give me about 9:1 compression if I keep these pistons.
My dilemma is, do I put new pistons in an otherwise good build, to bring it up to factory compression, or can I find a cam that will work with the existing engine and deliver the same or maybe just a little better performance than stock? I’m not expecting a race car, but I’d like it to perform equal to, or maybe a little better than in ’69.
Do you guys have a cam recommendation that will work with the restrictions above, but give the same or better than stock performance? This will be a weekend cruiser, that I will beat on, and I don't mind running good gas. I'm debating on the extra cost of new pistons/balance/cam to get good performance (ok, stock+ performance, not pull your eyeballs out acceleration performance, I know it has limitations) vs. keeping it as is and just getting a cam that will work with the current engine.
First, verify the EXACT compression ratio. Don't guess. Second, get the CR up to a real 10:1 and buy a custom cam and you'll be golden.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: madscientist]
#2724487
12/16/19 02:05 PM
12/16/19 02:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Hasn’t this already been discussed? https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...tio-and-choose-a-piston.html#Post2716798One of my customers does this type of build pretty often. In fact there is another one in the works right now. Imo, the “right” way to go about it with open chamber heads is use the quench dome pistons. Then you can use any cam that’s suitable for the application without trying to use it as a crutch to keep the motor from pinging. Or, get closed chamber heads and pistons that will end up within .040-.050 piston to head clearance.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2724488
12/16/19 02:12 PM
12/16/19 02:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,158
God's Country - Etowah, TN.
A34
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,158
God's Country - Etowah, TN.
|
Hasn’t this already been discussed? https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...tio-and-choose-a-piston.html#Post2716798One of my customers does this type of build pretty often. In fact there is another one in the works right now. Imo, the “right” way to go about it with open chamber heads is use the quench dome pistons. Then you can use any cam that’s suitable for the application without trying to use it as a crutch to keep the motor from pinging. Or, get closed chamber heads and pistons that will end up within .040-.050 piston to head clearance. Not exactly. This question is what cam to choose to make the existng engine perform. If there is one, as opposed to buying new pistons.
God Bless America, Our Troops and Their Families !
DEO VINDICE
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: A34]
#2724490
12/16/19 02:23 PM
12/16/19 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491
So. Burlington, Vt.
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For an 8.5-10.0cr 440 with exhaust manifolds, you’re looking for something along the lines of a
Howard’s 720141-12.
If you want to dabble with something in the way of a faster rate cam, the Lunati voodoo 702 cam would work if you’re at the lower end of the CR range.
The Crower 267hdp or 271hdp are also good choices.
Springs will need upgrading from OE.
Compared to a 10:1 zero deck flat top motor with something like a set of prepped Stealth heads....... there will def be a pretty noticeable seat of the pants difference.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: A34]
#2724504
12/16/19 02:56 PM
12/16/19 02:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097
Bend,OR USA
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Hasn’t this already been discussed? https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...tio-and-choose-a-piston.html#Post2716798One of my customers does this type of build pretty often. In fact there is another one in the works right now. Imo, the “right” way to go about it with open chamber heads is use the quench dome pistons. Then you can use any cam that’s suitable for the application without trying to use it as a crutch to keep the motor from pinging. Or, get closed chamber heads and pistons that will end up within .040-.050 piston to head clearance. Not exactly. This question is what cam to choose to make the existing engine perform. If there is one, as opposed to buying new pistons. Without knowing your expectations and your real world experiences in one of those cars back when they were stock how can we guess what parts to help you  I've built and drag race BB Mopars for along time, it is not hard to exceed the original stock HP and torque with some of todays parts like cam shafts and a good ignition and exhaust system  Compression ratio are often misunderstood, especially with todays pump fuel  I don't like exceeding 9.5 to 1 compression ratio with any of the iron head pump gas street and strip motors I build  Gasoline is probably not going to get better than it is now so think twice on the compression ratio before deciding, stay safe  Listen to Dwayne on his recommendation on your motor, build it once to get the best results IMO
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Another cam selection question, but with a twist - Resto
[Re: calrobb2000]
#2726016
12/22/19 08:44 AM
12/22/19 08:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,149
Md.
carnut68
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,149
Md.
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Here's an example of performance. Whenever I got my 68 Cuda it had a 446 in it. 2266F .074 in the hole. Steel shin head gasket. 906's@ 91cc. MP 509. Team G. TTI headers. T/A 3800 and 3.91's. It ran11.91 @111. Wrong cam,crap intake but still ran very good. Unless you have deep pockets run what you have. Good advice in the previous post's.
America First!
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