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Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fbs63] #2723221
12/11/19 12:45 PM
12/11/19 12:45 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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For a BB Mopar?

Cast cores used with roller lifters are made of a different material than what is used with flat faced tappets.

AFAIK, there are no SADI cores(ductile iron, the material used for roller lifters) made to fit BB Mopars.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723234
12/11/19 01:21 PM
12/11/19 01:21 PM
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Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
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Originally Posted by markz528

My biggest thing is to make sure that the new motor cam does not experience any issues..............


I wouldn't personally run a 5150 core with those specs.

You would have better reliability out of an 8620 core but of course need to make sure spring pressure and everything else in the valvetrain is correct.

JMO


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723239
12/11/19 01:27 PM
12/11/19 01:27 PM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
There are no cast roller cores for BB Mopars.

Copper color between the lobes is 8620 material.
Black between the lobes is usually 5150 material.

The heat treat goes deeper on the 5150, which allows for more manipulation for putting a wider variety of lifts and LSA’s on the core.

Both are steel billet.

Yes, his was a steel billet but likely (99.99%) it was as Fast said 5150 base. I vaguely remember him saying that Comp would offer him no $break$ for a replacement and they did say that the 8620 SHOULD have been HIS request for his application AND would be a $ upcharge verses the 5150 cores.

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723244
12/11/19 01:45 PM
12/11/19 01:45 PM
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central il.
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second 70 Online content
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Here's mine after 10 years on the street with Mobile 1 Yes it is a copper core.

IMG_1957.JPGIMG_1920.JPG
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: HardcoreB] #2723248
12/11/19 02:05 PM
12/11/19 02:05 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I haven’t had any problems with the 5150 cores.
That’s what most of the BB Mopar cores are these days.
They simply don’t always have 8620 cores that are suitable for every combination.
And if they do, they’re usually more $$$.

Unless Marks cam looks way worse in person than in the pics...... I still say it looks pretty normal to me.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723263
12/11/19 03:40 PM
12/11/19 03:40 PM
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On the parachute mount
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n20mstr Offline
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Is BES ok with reusing that cam? Maybe now is the time to let him spec your new one ?


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723266
12/11/19 03:47 PM
12/11/19 03:47 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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I'm DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!! I have a BLACK CORE CAM!!! whiney

( Hee hee! wink )

MP bronze_cam gear 1.jpg
Last edited by BradH; 12/11/19 03:50 PM.
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fbs63] #2723304
12/11/19 06:00 PM
12/11/19 06:00 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by fbs63
I've had some hydraulic rollers I would swear were cast.

Years ago, early to mid 1970s, I had two Isky solid rollers that I'm sure where cast core camshafts also shruggy
None bought since from any other company shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: BradH] #2723312
12/11/19 06:19 PM
12/11/19 06:19 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted by BradH
I'm DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!! I have a BLACK CORE CAM!!! whiney

( Hee hee! wink )



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,, dont take it apart & start over smile


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: n20mstr] #2723358
12/11/19 09:24 PM
12/11/19 09:24 PM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
Is BES ok with reusing that cam? Maybe now is the time to let him spec your new one ?


The cam is being replaced. New one is on its way. That was always the plan.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723408
12/12/19 10:07 AM
12/12/19 10:07 AM
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S.E. Michigan
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If it's still straight and otherwise in good shape, might be a nice one to regrind, if there's
enough meat there in the right places to create a different profile.




Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: ZIPPY] #2723554
12/12/19 07:56 PM
12/12/19 07:56 PM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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Looked at it some more tonight.

It’s the worst on the opening side. At max lift not too bad and gets worse on the closing side but not as bad as the opening side. Base has no marks.

The worst groove is 0.0008 inches - so almost a thousandths. I actually thought it would be worse.

The worst ones have pretty significant burrs.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723569
12/12/19 08:51 PM
12/12/19 08:51 PM
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Michigan
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Have you compared the width of the contact portion of the roller wheel versus the edges of the contact patch on the lobe?

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: A727Tflite] #2723581
12/12/19 09:27 PM
12/12/19 09:27 PM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Transman
Have you compared the width of the contact portion of the roller wheel versus the edges of the contact patch on the lobe?


I have not but it looks to be pretty much the width of the roller.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723596
12/12/19 11:07 PM
12/12/19 11:07 PM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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Some additional pictures showing the damage better.

Cam 4.jpgCam 5.jpgCam 6.jpg

67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723633
12/13/19 02:29 AM
12/13/19 02:29 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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it looks like one side of that lifter is hitting the cam lobe before the other side, it looks like it is loosing contact with the lobe after max lift work shruggy
I would replace (or have them rebuilt with new wheels, axles and bearings) all the lifters off of the lobes that look like that twocents

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/13/19 02:32 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2723670
12/13/19 10:35 AM
12/13/19 10:35 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Somewhat from out of left field...
- Rocker brand & ratio?
- Pushrod length, diameter & wall thickness?
- Did you find the spring specs and any info on how they were installed?

Speaking strictly as an amateur bystander, I'm wondering if the opening & closing flanks are showing the result of insufficient valve train control, or a lubrication issue.

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: BradH] #2723687
12/13/19 11:13 AM
12/13/19 11:13 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Still looks totally normal to me.
The more pics I see the more normal it looks.

All 16 lobes on the cam I posted the pic of have the same impressions on the opening side, in the area where the big change in velocity and pressure angle occurs.

Anyone got a pic of a typical drag race roller cam, that’s been run with typical drag race spring pressures for 100 or more passes that doesn’t have those marks on the opening side?
Let’s see some pics and specs.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723697
12/13/19 11:54 AM
12/13/19 11:54 AM
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PA.
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.0008
Give me a break. 😂
Lmao


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Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2723941
12/14/19 11:17 AM
12/14/19 11:17 AM
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PA
moparacer Offline
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I have a Bullet cam that looks just like that. And it eat a lifter and screwed it up....I could take some pictures and you wouldn't be able tell them from yours. When I first switched from a solid to a roller in my big block it was even worse. We sent the cam back to Bullet and they checked the hardness and it was ok, reground it, I put it back in and it did it again. I ended up upping the spring pressure and it helped, but I don't think I ever totally eliminated it. Since then I have been through several different lifter styles, cams and even blocks and it has always done it to some extent. I have to pull the engine and go through it here shortly and its got a few hundred passes on it and I bet there is some evidence of it still doing it.

I would like to know what the issue is if anyone ever figures it out. I have a theory that it might be related to the roller diameter, lobe profile and the geometry of the lifter bores, but that is just a guess.



Last edited by moparacer; 12/14/19 11:21 AM.

67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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