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damper thoughts running a gear drive #2722973
12/10/19 02:16 PM
12/10/19 02:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,237
north of coder
moparx Offline OP
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline OP
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,237
north of coder
what are your thoughts on choosing a damper when running a gear drive ?
any good damper ? fluid damper ? doesn't make any difference ? why ? street, street strip, or race mean anything ?
TIA as always ! bow
beer

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: moparx] #2722978
12/10/19 02:21 PM
12/10/19 02:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
ATI 3 ring dampeners regardless up scope:twocents
My current SP E85 motor has a ATI 3 ring on it, just like all the rest of the motors I've built in the last 5+ years, they work very well up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: Cab_Burge] #2722991
12/10/19 02:57 PM
12/10/19 02:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,603
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
master
rickseeman  Offline
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
Everybody's preference is the ATI but the Fluidamper looks more stock on a Street Hemi it that matters to you.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: rickseeman] #2722995
12/10/19 03:09 PM
12/10/19 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,318
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,318
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I have an ATI on my hemi and a Fluidamper on the 440. Both seem to work fine.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: moparx] #2723001
12/10/19 03:29 PM
12/10/19 03:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

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Romeo MI
I run fliuldamper on my 416ci with a gear drive.. have been for years now
wave

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2723012
12/10/19 04:01 PM
12/10/19 04:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,825
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,825
NW Indiana
Ati. Fluidampers are HEAVY!

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: fbs63] #2723015
12/10/19 04:08 PM
12/10/19 04:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
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New York
Part of how they work.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: polyspheric] #2723020
12/10/19 04:23 PM
12/10/19 04:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,400
Wi.
old_racer Offline
pro stock
old_racer  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,400
Wi.
ATI here also with gear drive, several motors.

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: old_racer] #2723043
12/10/19 06:00 PM
12/10/19 06:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast
mopardude318  Offline
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Gilroy,CA.
I have a TCI Rattler with a gear drive on a small block.


408 Stroker 533 HP 520 FT LBS...........................1970 Dart RMS AlterKation
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: moparx] #2723064
12/10/19 07:23 PM
12/10/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
super stock
jwb123  Offline
super stock
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
I like a fluid damper for my race engines. On a street engine, I have been told that if you run a fluid damper in cold weather the silicone fluid gets thick and may cause issues. So I just run a stock elastomer type balancer that is sfI approved on street engines.

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: jwb123] #2723108
12/10/19 10:42 PM
12/10/19 10:42 PM
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Posts: 4,457
Washington
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madscientist Offline
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M

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Washington
Originally Posted by jwb123
I like a fluid damper for my race engines. On a street engine, I have been told that if you run a fluid damper in cold weather the silicone fluid gets thick and may cause issues. So I just run a stock elastomer type balancer that is sfI approved on street engines.



I drive my car at well below freezing and my FD has never had an issue.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: madscientist] #2723121
12/10/19 11:23 PM
12/10/19 11:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here
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Great Neck,LI,new york
A picture tells the story!

7.17.17 005.jpg

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: hemi-itis] #2723124
12/10/19 11:27 PM
12/10/19 11:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
master
Jeremiah  Offline
master

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Rogue River, OR
ATI 917127E fits both Jesel belt drives and gear drives. @AndyF

Andy is a good resource for this kind of info too.



Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: Jeremiah] #2723154
12/11/19 06:20 AM
12/11/19 06:20 AM
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Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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gregsdart  Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
For a Milodon geardrive/super damper combo a special damper hub is requiered. $119! And don't under any circumstances buy a used damper. The ATIs may have to have all the bolt heads drilled out/off to disassemble. It might be worth asking if anti sieze can be put on the shoulders of the bolt heads before installation. I had to drill mine to dissassemble for rebuilding. I tried soaking them in wd40, penetrating oil, still broke multiple allen sockets.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: gregsdart] #2723209
12/11/19 11:17 AM
12/11/19 11:17 AM
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Posts: 19,237
north of coder
moparx Offline OP
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline OP
"Butt Crack Bob"

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interesting replies fellows. thank you !
any others ?
beer

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: moparx] #2723229
12/11/19 01:17 PM
12/11/19 01:17 PM
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Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
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Bitopia
Every chart I have seen, even those published by ATI, shows the FD more effective for its intended design below 6500? rpm, seems like the expected use would be a factor in deciding.
That being said, I have both. biggrin


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: jcc] #2723273
12/11/19 04:30 PM
12/11/19 04:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted by jcc
Every chart I have seen, even those published by ATI, shows the FD more effective for its intended design below 6500? rpm, seems like the expected use would be a factor in deciding.
That being said, I have both. biggrin


I ran my FD to 8200 on every pass with zero issues and now on my 418
wave

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2723282
12/11/19 05:01 PM
12/11/19 05:01 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
The differences in dampening between an ATI and a Fluid damper are pretty small. Bracket racers would never notice the difference. NASCAR engine builders need to pay attention to this stuff though. I'm pretty sure all NASCAR engines get tuned ATI dampers these days.

For bracket racing or street duty just use whatever fits. For serious drag racing I'd probably use an ATI unit.

Finding something that fits is the important thing. ATI makes a version with a longer hub that fits belt drives and gear drives so that is one option I'd look at.

Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: AndyF] #2723336
12/11/19 07:37 PM
12/11/19 07:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Bitopia
"Stop the presses panic

So I went online to locate the ATI graph/chart that I thought I just recently viewed in the newest ATI product catalog I got in the mail. The online graph does not jive with what I shared here regrading the comparison of ATI vs FD in rpms.

I will get a copy of ATI's catalog at PRI Thursday and I might have to retract my incorrect comment. Sorry"

So the attached pic is from the latest "ATI 2020 Winter catalog".

As AndyF has already noted there are many variables in tuning a damper. I suspect there are at least 12? known elected variables that they account for in the final design. I'd bet there are another dozen variables felt too difficult to measure or insignificant enough to design in, and I also suspect there is an infinite of unknown undiscovered other variables also at play. All to mean, pic your poison.

So I also suspect ATI being a for profit corporation, picked a specific ATI damper to best promote their marketing strategy. I'd give them the benefit of doubt and believe they did not pick competitor test example s that would test poorly.

That being said, all three dampers in the graph appear to test the same up to approx 5800 rpms, at the point their effectiveness separate, then the FD tests best, until approx 6900 rpm where its non effectiveness quickly climbs, and the ATI becomes more effective as the rpms climb. I would not draw a solid conclusion from this, but I believe its indicative in general as to the best rpms effective range a user could be guided by. Such as if you never seldom operate your engine above say 7000 rpm, the choice is rather clear. None of the above numbers are etched in stone, especially if one refers back to my opening comment on variables and tuning dampers.

ATI Damper Comparsion img648.jpg
Last edited by jcc; 12/23/19 05:22 PM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: damper thoughts running a gear drive [Re: jcc] #2723427
12/12/19 11:31 AM
12/12/19 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176
East Coast
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A/MP Offline
super stock
A/MP  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176
East Coast
Of the 3-4 balancer companies out there, their products/theory work at different harmonic levels. Some do a general dampening through the rpm range and others are more specific. I've found that harmonics, whether engine, driveshaft, etc, can be many hidden issues that surface and reveal themselves in unexpected ways. There was a chart several years ago that posted the rpm/dampening effects for balancers. Then of course is the whole 1960's-70's Chrysler/Nascar balancer theory that lets balancer weight solve all issues.

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