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issues with fresh 440 #2722389
12/07/19 07:46 PM
12/07/19 07:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
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Detroit Michigan
rebuilt '78 with diamond pistons,pep rods, eddy heads,crane roller rockers,Comp Cams 509 with Comp lifters.
I rebuilt this engine and everything went as smooth as silk. Primed the oil system and had 80PSI oil pressure. Installed it in the car etc.etc. Did the break in procedure with 10 w 30 and Comp break in additive all good. I noticed after break in the valve train was a little loud but not alarmingly loud. I changed oil to 10 w 40 and another bottle of additive. noticed oil pressure took longer then I liked to reach the top,about 30 seconds. shut down and restart it and would get about 30 psi on the gauge. shut it down and restart it and it would instantly jump to 80 and stay there until the next day.same thing all over again. decided to change back to amsoil z rod 10 w 30 and a new filter and oil pressure did the same thing but was faster to get up top.
Now with the new 10w 30 when the engine reaches temp I'm getting a loud clacking noise up top as far as I can tell. I readjusted the rocker's with a quarter turn from zero lash and fired it up again. cold the engine has no noise but when it reaches temp the clacking is back. lower rpm's to 500 and it get's quiet,raise it to 1000 and it's loud fast paced clack. I tore the top end off but lifter's are not scored but I'm no expert on the cam lobes to see if the wear is normal for a fresh cam. any idea's? Bad lifter maybe?

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: stinger] #2722391
12/07/19 08:03 PM
12/07/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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PA.
Did you cut the filter apart. It’s a very good thing to do after cam break in.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: pittsburghracer] #2722392
12/07/19 08:08 PM
12/07/19 08:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
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would some fine metallic paste be normal in a fresh engine? I was told it was

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: stinger] #2722396
12/07/19 08:28 PM
12/07/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
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Pics

6461398B-E52D-4ABB-8989-241B6B012E20.jpeg039E8B81-4FE0-40D1-85B5-13C2C1316746.jpeg
Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: stinger] #2722399
12/07/19 08:38 PM
12/07/19 08:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 177
Casper, WY
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Wax Offline
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It appears from the picture that you are losing the lobes on the cam shaft. What did you use for break in oil?

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: Wax] #2722403
12/07/19 08:48 PM
12/07/19 08:48 PM
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Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Hard to tell by looking at a pic on my phone, but I don’t see anything alarming on the cam.
Pull each lifter and carefully inspect the bottom of it.

When cam lobes go bad, the lifters almost always go with them.
With as little run time as it has, the lifters should be perfect.
If you see something iffy on one, carefully inspect the corresponding cam lobe.

Did you check for lifter rotation during assembly?
What are the open and closed spring loads?
What did you use for cam lube?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2722406
12/07/19 09:05 PM
12/07/19 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
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Detroit Michigan
Lifters look good
Springs are what came on the rpm’
Molly paste

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: stinger] #2722408
12/07/19 09:09 PM
12/07/19 09:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
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1

Last edited by csk; 12/08/19 01:40 AM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: CSK] #2722411
12/07/19 09:30 PM
12/07/19 09:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Is it the camera flash or shop lighting that makes some of the lobes look shinier than others?


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: pittsburghracer] #2722430
12/07/19 11:36 PM
12/07/19 11:36 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Don't know what to tell you about the valve train. If that is is a Comp Extreme Energy or what ever they call their most aggressive lobe profile hydraulic cam, they are noted for being noisy.

The only things I can think of besides a FUBAR oil filter that can make oil pressure come and go like that is a sticking relief valve or a spun pump drive that is now using friction to turn the pump.

If you changed the pump when you built the engine, did you disassemble it and clean it? It's amazing the machining trash you will find inside a new oil pump that can jam the rotors and twist the drive or hang the bypass.

Kevin

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: Twostick] #2722481
12/08/19 10:25 AM
12/08/19 10:25 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,947
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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Apollo, PA.
I was under the belief that once a lobe on a cam has wear across the whole lobe, its gone. Lifters are ground with a taper/crown. In that pic you can clearly see wear the whole way across a lobe. I think the cam is going flat. I would go back to the lifter/s and see if a tightening up quiets them down, although it sounds like you already did this once. If you have a dial indicator you could check lift off the top of a pushrod to see if its off the mark.

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #2722483
12/08/19 10:29 AM
12/08/19 10:29 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,947
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
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After a second look at the pictures, also looks petty dry up top for a just run engine. I would think that all the crevices/depressions would be full of puddles of oil. shruggy

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #2722501
12/08/19 11:44 AM
12/08/19 11:44 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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The nose of the cam lobes will have contact all the way across.

It’s extremely unlikely all the lobes are going flat, so turn the motor over by hand so you can inspect the nose of each lobe.
You’re looking for one that’s obviously different than the others.

To address the oil pressure, I agree with pulling the pump all apart, clean and inspect.
Actually, before you pulled the pump, you could remove and inspect how smoothly the relief valve slides in its bore.

As for the noise, I think you’d be better off with more preload.
1/2 to 1 turn....... depending on the thread pitch of the adjuster screw.
I’d be shooting for .030-.040 preload.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2722553
12/08/19 02:02 PM
12/08/19 02:02 PM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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1/4 turn isn't near enough pre-load on the tappets.

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: lewtot184] #2722556
12/08/19 02:17 PM
12/08/19 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
1/4 turn isn't near enough pre-load on the tappets.


iagree at a 24 thread that's roughly .010 - .012

Last edited by Roughbird72; 12/08/19 02:17 PM.

72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: Roughbird72] #2722573
12/08/19 04:12 PM
12/08/19 04:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
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#6 exhaust lifter face is slightly concave but no marks on it.

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: stinger] #2722580
12/08/19 04:48 PM
12/08/19 04:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles Offline
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Originally Posted by stinger
#6 exhaust lifter face is slightly concave but no marks on it.


So that lifter is trash, at least... hopefully it was just "soft" and didn't damage the mating lobe, but I'd be worried about the cam too. scope

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: stinger] #2722582
12/08/19 05:00 PM
12/08/19 05:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Originally Posted by stinger
#6 exhaust lifter face is slightly concave but no marks on it.


Let’s see a pic....... but....... it’s done.

What starts out as slightly concave becomes:

9948071C-BD96-4EB2-A3F4-853CF15D7772.jpeg080DB7C1-726C-4A51-A6F6-A1B7279F7CEB.jpeg

68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2722584
12/08/19 05:06 PM
12/08/19 05:06 PM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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party over. clean the mess up and try a different cam/lifters.

Re: issues with fresh 440 [Re: lewtot184] #2722596
12/08/19 05:53 PM
12/08/19 05:53 PM
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Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I’ll add that if the cam being used is a Purple Plus 509 cam, those use .904 lifter diameter lobes.
Sometimes the factory lifter bore positioning is such that a .904 specific lobe has the profile running off the edge of the lifter.

“If it were me”, I would use a cam that had a lobe profile that didn’t require .904 lifters.

Assuming the PP509 was a good match for the overall combo, something like a 21-314-4 would provide for a similar powerband and “character”, but doesn’t require the .904 lifter.
You’d possibly be giving up a few ponies.

An Isky 292 Mega-cam would be another option, along with the Howard’s Big Daddy Rattler.

All of those recommendations assume you’re running headers.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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