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Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: 71TA] #2713752
11/07/19 03:18 PM
11/07/19 03:18 PM
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Posts: 5,153
USA
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360view Offline
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Fresh from today’s medical research abstracts:

https://www.jns-journal.com/article/S0022-510X(19)32314-7/fulltext

Sample quote

Vestibular migraine (VM) is the most common neurologic cause of vertigo among adults. However, there are no specifically studied or approved rescue therapies for acute VM attacks. This study describes how external trigeminal nerve stimulation (eTNS) using the Cefaly® (CEFALY Technology, Seraing, Belgium) device relieves acute VM episodes.

End quote

I normally only read the Dementia related stuff that might be breakthroughs.
Like these:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-11-rapamycin-age-related-brain-vascular-deterioration.html

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...ould-hold-a-key-to-fighting-the-disease/

Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: 360view] #2714137
11/09/19 04:13 AM
11/09/19 04:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,535
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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BigBlockMopar  Offline
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Posts: 3,535
The Netherlands
Knowing we're on a car-forum here, there might be similar relation to what I've encountered.

Some 15 years ago my eating habits were based more of getting some subtance in my stomach instead of getting something healthy inside.
After a week of fast food and quick meals, over the weekend I had done some extensive engine tuning in my garage. Open doors and all, but ofcourse still surrounded by exhaust fumes most of the time.

That very next day I woke with the room spinning like crazy.
I couldn't stand up. Eyes closed or open didn't matter. I had to crawl on hands and feet to the bathroom.
Doctor came over and suspected an inner-ear infection. Got a few meds it was gone in a couple of days.
Didn't experience it again.

My verdict:
Having a lower resistance because of the bad food, AND inhale posionous exhaust-vapours for a relatively long period of time was probably enough to cause the infection.

Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: 71TA] #2714399
11/09/19 10:59 PM
11/09/19 10:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,244
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline
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Albany, NY
Glad that video offers a DIY solution. I have a friend at work who loves to play Club League baseball, done it all his life - but can't anymore cuz "at bat" triggers his vertigo. How awful.

Originally Posted by 71TA

Is it just me but I cant help thinking why wouldn't an ER doctor attempt that Epley Maneuver FIRST? If it fixes the problem we all do a high fives and I'm only out $5000 for walking through the ER door instead of shaking me down.


Hm... all the lawsuits brought against Drs and Hospitals for missing a diagnosis or anything after an ER visit..? ...that wouldn't have anything to do with them running all those tests to rule out stroke, etc.. now would it?

Nah.

Patients totally understand the need to focus on the basic most obvious problems, cut back on tests and just deal with the occasional medical errors.

Said no American ever.

- Art


1965 Satellite hardtop 361/2bbl, 727, pegleg 2.76
1967 Satellite convert 383/4bbl, 727, pegleg 3.23
1975 Maserati Bora, 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd manual ZF box
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 2.5L SOHC hemi V6, 5-spd man transaxle
2007 Aston Martin DB9, 6.0L DOHC V12, 6spd man transaxle
Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: 71TA] #2716221
11/15/19 07:19 PM
11/15/19 07:19 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,516
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Posts: 5,516
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Originally Posted by 71TA
Great video. Thanks for sharing! I'm saving a link to that on my iphone! I feel 99.99% better so I'm not gonna even attempt that maneuver unless it happens again!

Is it just me but I cant help thinking why wouldn't an ER doctor attempt that Epley Maneuver FIRST? If it fixes the problem we all do a high fives and I'm only out $5000 for walking through the ER door instead of shaking me down. The full of himself doctor that graced me with his presence for 3 full minutes before "allowing" me to leave said I might want to see a neurologist because the MRI showed a small fluid filled area on the back of my brain but he said that might just be congenital too (meaning I was born with it). HE NEVER ONCE said the word Vertigo. The nurse gave me a printout of all my blood tests (all 8 of them), X ray, cat scan and MRI tests said it briefly mentions Vertigo. Not one of the 8 doctors (even the 2 young doctors that woke me from a deep sleep at 1AM and 2AM explained vertigo, what to do to prevent it, what to do if it happened again, IF I should take meds, NOTHING! Seems like every time I have a need for a doctor I feel taken advantage of, I'm inconveniencing them, talked down to. My daughter in Med school says well you would have faulted them if they didn't do all the tests and missed something more serious. How would I know what they were even testing for cause none of them told me a damn thing. You might say well why didnt you ask. Ask what? Do I ask about every alilment I could think of but if I forgot to ask about one then its on me? I didn't know what I had. I never heard of Vertigo till that day. In fact Vertico was mentioned in passing by an ENT intern and then by a nurse as I was leaving. AND WHY NOT TRY THE EASY, OBVIOUS FIX FIRST. THAT EPLEY MANEUVER. A car analogy is you don't pull the crank FIRST if the car wont start. And at what cost do they run every possible test. I'm surprised they didnt give me a pregnancy test. How many of us non doctor, average income, MORTALS have an extra $10,000+ our families don't need. I read recently that 1/2 of America doesn't have $5000 in the bank. I've worked harder than just about anyone I personally know and have still never had the luxury of extra piles of $10,000 I didn't have a mortgage, loan, investment I could apply it to.

PS The MRI tech mentioned in their write up in medical lingo that said "left maxillary sinus disease". Was I supposed to find that easter egg on my own. Maybe they can run another $10,000 of tests and have me see a Urologist - which would be as unrelated as suggesting seeing a neurologist for Vertigo!

In their defense my daughter said at any time I could leave after signing an AMA form. Against Medical Advice. The only way I'll enter a hospital again is if I'm physically unable to prevent it.


The reason they do that besides the greed is liability.

If they had done that maneuver and you were fine and then stroked out on the way home, big malpractice suit even tho you could have stroked out just because, then or 2 days later.

I'm a Canuck and while it cost me nothing out of pocket at least to have a heart attack and triple bypass, I find the opposite here as far as diagnosing is concerned. Pick the least lethal cause for your problem, a medical Auchem's Razor if you will and try to prove that is what it is and out the door. Most of the time that's the case but just because the hoofbeats you hear are usually horses doesn't mean there isn't a zebra in the herd.

Kevin

Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: Twostick] #2716298
11/16/19 07:28 AM
11/16/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,153
USA
3
360view Offline
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Posts: 5,153
USA
Get a second opinion on what your Human MD says is your illness:

https://symptomchecker.isabelhealthcare.com/

Isabel was written by a British computer engineer whose daughter Isabel died when her “free” NHS doctor missed her diagnosis.

Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2720274
11/29/19 02:50 PM
11/29/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,845
Warren, MI
71TA Offline OP
I Live Here
71TA  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,845
Warren, MI
Liability? Do you think they really give a damn. It's only greed and self preservation. Bet they ring a bell or high five when they get some sucker to get a cat scan.

My daughter who works in an ER as a PA said one greedy doctor (my words) runs out in the waiting room and rounds up ALL the patients and lines them up in chairs in the hallway and has them filling out paperwork. That basically means they are "his" because he "needs the money". Sure its not cause he is overly concerned about their welfare. Somehow he gets a cut/bonus for every patient he sees.

I got what I think are the bulk of the bills. $7000 so far. Thats way lighter than I thought. Maybe my bottom of the barrel $15,000/yr, $13,000 deductible BCBS negotiated those prices down? But how many mortals have $7000 they dont need laying around. Not me.

Where is the point where they can keep you alive BUT you owe thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, in bills (cause health insurance does have a cap).

Someone above said I can negotiate the bills to half by offering to pay cash. How is that done again? Maybe I can sell parts off my Challenger smile



www.DetroitMuscleTechnologies.com Mopar body and heater box restoration gaskets
Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: 71TA] #2720277
11/29/19 03:05 PM
11/29/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,189
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline
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Posts: 3,189
State of Jefferson
Originally Posted by 71TA
I got what I think are the bulk of the bills. $7000 so far. Thats way lighter than I thought. Maybe my bottom of the barrel $15,000/yr, $13,000 deductible BCBS negotiated those prices down? But how many mortals have $7000 they dont need laying around. Not me.

Where is the point where they can keep you alive BUT you owe thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, in bills (cause health insurance does have a cap).


You'll take your freedom and like it! /sarcasm

But really, there's a reason the rest of the world has better outcomes with lower cost. The frustrating thing is that it shouldn't be political laugh2 All we need to do is look at the numbers, and make the obvious decision.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2720280
11/29/19 03:31 PM
11/29/19 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 916
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
super stock
Sniper  Offline
super stock
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 916
nowhere
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by 71TA
I got what I think are the bulk of the bills. $7000 so far. Thats way lighter than I thought. Maybe my bottom of the barrel $15,000/yr, $13,000 deductible BCBS negotiated those prices down? But how many mortals have $7000 they dont need laying around. Not me.

Where is the point where they can keep you alive BUT you owe thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, in bills (cause health insurance does have a cap).


You'll take your freedom and like it! /sarcasm

But really, there's a reason the rest of the world has better outcomes with lower cost. The frustrating thing is that it shouldn't be political laugh2 All we need to do is look at the numbers, and make the obvious decision.


Politics is the reason it's like this. Should of kep their hands off it to begin with. Nothing affordable about the affordable care act.

Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: Sniper] #2720363
11/29/19 10:15 PM
11/29/19 10:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 245
Spudsville
Mr. Potatohead Offline
The member formerly known as..EV2..
Mr. Potatohead  Offline
The member formerly known as..EV2..

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 245
Spudsville
At one point I had a 97k bill for a 4 day stay, there billing mfic said I could do a one time 1/2 payment. It took alot but I did it, I should of went another route looking back.

If you google the number of americans with medical debt, its staggering. Not saying its proper but when I got the 97k bill I should of spent 1k and filled for bankruptcy as it wouldnt of impacted me at all. Is it the proper way out, no, but they are sticking it to us even more so.

Something needs a reset, one way or another.


My family is a bunch of Fruits and Vegetables and many cant tell us apart. EAT ME!
Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: Mr. Potatohead] #2720379
11/30/19 12:02 AM
11/30/19 12:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,189
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline
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Posts: 3,189
State of Jefferson
Originally Posted by Sniper
Politics is the reason it's like this. Should of kep their hands off it to begin with. Nothing affordable about the affordable care act.


I agree. The ACA is terrible because it was a total compromise to try to appease one side. The amusing thing is that the core of it (the individual mandate) was the GOP plan from the 90s, and was implemented in Massachusetts. Then it was suddenly a bad idea. It doesn't help that the implementation was hamstrung on purpose by one side. wrench

But if one honestly looks at the reasons for the individual mandate, it does make sense. Look up the term "Death Spiral" for the reason why.

Originally Posted by Mr. Potatohead
At one point I had a 97k bill for a 4 day stay, there billing mfic said I could do a one time 1/2 payment. It took alot but I did it, I should of went another route looking back.

If you google the number of americans with medical debt, its staggering. Not saying its proper but when I got the 97k bill I should of spent 1k and filled for bankruptcy as it wouldnt of impacted me at all. Is it the proper way out, no, but they are sticking it to us even more so.

Something needs a reset, one way or another.


eek That's why we need a new way forward. Healthcare isn't like buying a car where you can shop around and decide whether to buy it or not. When (not if) you need it, you need it, and you can't say no, no matter what the price is. Because of that there is no way for the free market to truly fix it. And because we can't say no, if the debt is written off in bankruptcy/collections, we all have to cover it anyways; aka, universal coverage, with extra steps, cost, and stress.

At this point, it sure seems like the entire health care system sees the writing on the wall, and are extracting as much money as they can before changes are made frown


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2720420
11/30/19 10:49 AM
11/30/19 10:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,173
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,173
north of coder
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by Sniper
Politics is the reason it's like this. Should of kep their hands off it to begin with. Nothing affordable about the affordable care act.


I agree. The ACA is terrible because it was a total compromise to try to appease one side. The amusing thing is that the core of it (the individual mandate) was the GOP plan from the 90s, and was implemented in Massachusetts. Then it was suddenly a bad idea. It doesn't help that the implementation was hamstrung on purpose by one side. wrench

But if one honestly looks at the reasons for the individual mandate, it does make sense. Look up the term "Death Spiral" for the reason why.

Originally Posted by Mr. Potatohead
At one point I had a 97k bill for a 4 day stay, there billing mfic said I could do a one time 1/2 payment. It took alot but I did it, I should of went another route looking back.

If you google the number of americans with medical debt, its staggering. Not saying its proper but when I got the 97k bill I should of spent 1k and filled for bankruptcy as it wouldnt of impacted me at all. Is it the proper way out, no, but they are sticking it to us even more so.

Something needs a reset, one way or another.


eek That's why we need a new way forward. Healthcare isn't like buying a car where you can shop around and decide whether to buy it or not. When (not if) you need it, you need it, and you can't say no, no matter what the price is. Because of that there is no way for the free market to truly fix it. And because we can't say no, if the debt is written off in bankruptcy/collections, we all have to cover it anyways; aka, universal coverage, with extra steps, cost, and stress.

At this point, it sure seems like the entire health care system sees the writing on the wall, and are extracting as much money as they can before changes are made frown


^^^^^^ EXACTLY ! iagree
beer

Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: moparx] #2720485
11/30/19 04:52 PM
11/30/19 04:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,905
...to Paradise from ParaICE !
Doc Fiberglass Online content
Put me back on my meds!
Doc Fiberglass  Online Content
Put me back on my meds!

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,905
...to Paradise from ParaICE !
Clarity and transparency is a MUST HAVE to tackle these ridiculous health care costs .....

In all of these debates ... where do these apimp ever put the blame on the hospitals and doctors ?


...... but I AM on my mEdS ... that is nearly 80 degree weather in the middle of jAnUaRy ! ... to the two peeps from Iowa and Ohio !!
Re: Vertigo - learned expensive lesson I'd like to share [Re: Cab_Burge] #2720524
11/30/19 08:37 PM
11/30/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,679
Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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Posts: 4,679
Utah and Alaska
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I've drag raced most of life, not real fast cars to start with and then most of them would run mid 11.5 to 11.00
I got mad at NHRA in 1988 and sold my stocker, bracket car and one under construction for S/G, I took up flying lessons and became a private pilot in 1990.
I ended up doing a trade on restoring a 1969 Dodge Charger 500 Hemi 4 speed car for a 1960 Piper Comanche 250 model in 1991 boogie I flew that airplane around 40 to 50 hours a year for over 12 yrs..
I was rifted in 1997 from the local phone company after having 33 yrs. total time, there was money available for cross training into another career I so took advantage of that and got my commercial license with a instrument rating, I was planning on becoming a certified flight instructor but once I realized how little money I would take home after taxes and insurance would be I decided to build motors instead.
Part of the instrument training involves the flight instructor trying to induce spatial disorientation to the student to simulate being in the clouds with no visible horizon in sight by limiting your forward vision with a special pair of glasses and then having you close your eyes and shake your head while he does a bunch of unusual maneuvers with the airplane for several minutes and then says it is your airplane, give me a heading of 090 at 5500 Ft. You have to use the instruments to determine what the airplane is doing ,diving or climbing or nether and what direction and altitude it is at and then do what is needed to comply.
My instructor was never able to induce that problem, I'm sure due to my inner ear having the fluids in it mess around a lot from drag racing a lot shruggy
My instructor hated going into the clouds and I was training in Phoenix ,AZ so most of my training was done in clear blue sky conditions whiney We did get to make one long cross country trip that involved climbing through around 6000 Ft of rain clouds before coming out on top of them, it was a El Nino winter. No one had mentioned or warn me about the bumpiness of those type clouds shock
I did get it the first time I was in the clouds in my own airplane with another airplane owner, we where doing a instrument approach in my airplane with me flying it, he was trying to tell me to do the type of approach he would do in his airplane(a localizer approach) instead of letting me do it the ILS approach with my instruments, I look down at the printed approach procedures instructions on my knee and ended up turning to the left starting a slow descent, he caught it and said something so I looked at the instruments, my butt was telling me we where straight and level when we weren't shock
You can get vertigo or spatial disorientation from standing up real quick from being bent over at the waist at a 90 degree or more angle to the ground, I get light headed and start to loose some vision, eyes seeing black, from that if I stand up to quick whiney
Good health is a true blessing up


Working on a Comanche will give any mechanic nausea from all of the AD's and special inspections, should have bought a 206!


1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta

I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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