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Re: Out dated helmets [Re: sgcuda] #2717371
11/19/19 12:55 AM
11/19/19 12:55 AM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline
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Portland, Oregon
Buddy of mine mounted his old skid lid on the wall in his shop upside down and attached a funnel to it that ran outside.
You can imagine the rest...

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: CMcAllister] #2717440
11/19/19 09:41 AM
11/19/19 09:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,498
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
I'm really surprised at the incredible naiveté expressed here.

Who do helmets protect:
1. the person wearing it
1. the insurance companies

Who do they have absolutely not effect on:
1. the other 7,000,000,000 people on the planet, including you


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717520
11/19/19 01:26 PM
11/19/19 01:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 677
New Hampshire, USA
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oldiron Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
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New Hampshire, USA
Originally Posted by polyspheric
I'm really surprised at the incredible naiveté expressed here.

Who do helmets protect:
1. the person wearing it
1. the insurance companies

Who do they have absolutely not effect on:
1. the other 7,000,000,000 people on the planet, including you


Can't argue that, but did have to check the 7 billion number. I'm amazed, actually shows as 7.5b. I thought we were still at 3 1/2 b. I'm out of touch
When I was born, was about 2.5b

So if I use an old helmet, there will only be 6,999,999,999
Think I'll be missed/ frown


66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge
New New Best: 10.56 @129
68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: sgcuda] #2717525
11/19/19 01:31 PM
11/19/19 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,725
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,725
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted by sgcuda
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Where are you going racing around here that you need a new certified helmet to pass tech? Even when I was at an NHRA tech'd event (only twice in my "career"), they never looked at my helmet.


It's not a matter of passing tech. It's a matter of piece of mind and safety. I just finished up a car for my son. First time ever drag racing. Car is going low 7's in the 1/8 right now. Soon to be going low 6's, maybe high 5's. When your kids want to start racing because Daddy does it, let me know if you put that 20 year old helmet on their heads.

Calm down Kenny. My question was out of curiosity to see if yall got hassled at a track (I know yall went to Pageland recently) around here for an older helmet, b/c I never have.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda street car...8.91 at 150.5 mph w/ 4.10s, 8.97 at 152.5 mph w/ 3.54s so far
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717565
11/19/19 03:11 PM
11/19/19 03:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,973
Trumussia
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jcc Offline
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Trumussia
Originally Posted by polyspheric
I'm really surprised at the incredible naiveté expressed here.

Who do helmets protect:
1. the person wearing it
1. the insurance companies

Who do they have absolutely not effect on:
1. the other 7,000,000,000 people on the planet, including you


Then the question is, who pays the increased Insurance rates because of a track injury?:
1. The poor choice helmeted injured driver?
2. The 7 + billion?
3. Or the other track racers?


"Respect and Contempt are best served when justly earned"
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717569
11/19/19 03:14 PM
11/19/19 03:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,683
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by polyspheric
I'm really surprised at the incredible naiveté expressed here.

Who do helmets protect:
1. the person wearing it
1. the insurance companies

Who do they have absolutely not effect on:
1. the other 7,000,000,000 people on the planet, including you


Sort of. Should we as participants not be concerned about other participants being killed, burned, disabled, flung from cars like we can see happening in old films of Indy and sprint cars? Should we be OK with guys wearing leather helmets and T-shirts at the speeds we are seeing now?

Plain vanilla bracket cars are going faster than Top Fuel cars were years ago. Should safety not also evolve to keep up? Why not take advantage of the technology? Should a person be allowed to drive a Top Sportsman car in a ball cap and shorts? What about his family? What about who's going to pay the medical bills for him being stupid if it's his turn to be unlucky?

Public image and insurability are two things that need to be at the top of the list, if we want to continue to do this. We've come a long way from the old street racing hoodlum days, despite the negative image portrayed in some current TV shows.

While I appreciate the Libertarian ideas of allowing people to be as stupid as they want to be, we are living in a world where BEING SAFE is often the most important consideration for any activity, if we want to be seen on the same level as other mainstream sports. Nothing happens anymore that doesn't get instantly spread through social media, especially if it is something bad. Frankly, I prefer to see video or reports of ridiculously bad accidents, fires, or the incidents that are inevitably going to happen, and see the guy walk away from it without a scratch. That's when the value of all this "safety crap" becomes evident.

Years ago, I did tech at a local track, and I looked at the cars, not just handed out stickers. It was unbelievable the crap some people would want to be allowed to run down the track. Then get mad at me because I didn't want to sign off on them racing in a death trap. So yes, some folks need to be protected from themselves to keep the rest of us from looking like idiots. I like to go to the range, do a little target shooting on occasion. And I really don't want to see an idiot shoot themselves, accidentally or otherwise, for many of the same obvious reasons I don't want to see anyone hurt in a race car. It's not a good look.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 11/19/19 03:20 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: CMcAllister] #2717580
11/19/19 03:39 PM
11/19/19 03:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 965
Ohio
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jlatessa Offline
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Ohio
Well said, McAllister...Joe

Re: Out dated helmets [Re: jcc] #2717678
11/19/19 08:59 PM
11/19/19 08:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,498
New York
polyspheric Offline
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polyspheric  Offline
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Posts: 3,498
New York
who pays the increased Insurance rates because of a track injury
As a result of someone injured in a race (for which he already waived litigation) due to his own negligence? He won't get a dime, and you won't pay for it.

That was the "legal" argument giving the Federal government the right to lock you up for... not wearing your seat belt.
Remind me - where does this appear in the Constitution?
Trick question: it doesn't.

Very simple: you're responsible for your own life, but not mine, unless you want to pay for it. Give me your credit card number and I'll buy any helmet you approve of.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717694
11/19/19 09:30 PM
11/19/19 09:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,457
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Posts: 15,457
PA.
Originally Posted by polyspheric
who pays the increased Insurance rates because of a track injury
As a result of someone injured in a race (for which he already waived litigation) due to his own negligence? He won't get a dime, and you won't pay for it.

That was the "legal" argument giving the Federal government the right to lock you up for... not wearing your seat belt.
Remind me - where does this appear in the Constitution?
Trick question: it doesn't.

Very simple: you're responsible for your own life, but not mine, unless you want to pay for it. Give me your credit card number and I'll buy any helmet you approve of.



Please tell me you aren’t out of the loop so far that you don’t think track injuries affect all racers.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Out dated helmets [Re: pittsburghracer] #2717703
11/19/19 09:41 PM
11/19/19 09:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,360
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline
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493_DART  Offline
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Worst Weather USA
I always Ebay my MINT condition sfi belts ( SCAM ) and my MINT sfi (SCAM) helmets.

Oh look..i had to sit out 2 seasons and my UN-USED belts are now "illegal" . What a joke....same with "locking dipsticks" .

F the nhra/ihra sfi racket .

Re: Out dated helmets [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2717771
11/20/19 07:48 AM
11/20/19 07:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline OP
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Charlotte, North Carolina
Calm down Kenny. My question was out of curiosity to see if yall got hassled at a track (I know yall went to Pageland recently) around here for an older helmet, b/c I never have.

As you know, I haven't raced in a bunch of years down here. In NY, they checked it every time we raced. Helmet, belts, wheel studs, damper was the normal routine. Since I rented the track for the day, the only thing checked was the cash. Lol! Guess I'll find out soon enough who checks and who doesn't. Sorry if I took it the wrong way, Chip.

Re: Out dated helmets [Re: sgcuda] #2717779
11/20/19 09:26 AM
11/20/19 09:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,725
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 11,725
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I've raced at a LOT of the tracks around here. The only things I've ever been checked for was a driveshaft loop, radiator overflow bottle, seat belts, and helmet. When I say checked for...I mean to see if they were actually there. Never checked the actual location of the loop or dates on anything.
Most tracks don't check anything. If you have a car, you're good, lol.

Darlington is the most strict...they will turn you away if you don't have long pants and a helmet. They have loaner helmets though. They do require a single layer fire jacket if the car is quicker than 6.50 in the 1/8 I believe.
I've run mid 5s in the 1/8 and 8s at over 150 mph in the 1/4 and never once been asked about my cage cert (which is out of date), comp license (which I do have), or the parachute I don't have.
Believe me, there are MUCH faster cars w/ way less safety equipment than I have.

Last time I was at Pageland I think I just wrote the number from the gate ticket on the windshield and that was all that was needed to go run.

Some of yall from up north would be appalled at the junk that is allowed to run at tracks down here, but it's all about money. If you turn this guy away b/c he has junk, there are so many tracks down here that he (and all his friends) will just start going somewhere else.
There's a reason certain crowds only go to the small outlaw 1/8 mile tracks and never frequent the bigger nicer facilities like Darlington or Rockingham. Some of these tracks are literally a couple strips of pavement at the back of a field w/ a timing system and what looks like a fence.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda street car...8.91 at 150.5 mph w/ 4.10s, 8.97 at 152.5 mph w/ 3.54s so far
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2717811
11/20/19 11:19 AM
11/20/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,457
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Posts: 15,457
PA.
Maybe if I only raced 4-5 times a year max it would bother me more but like I said I’m cool with getting over 10 years out of a helmet. I love the diaper I put on my car and the 8.50 cage cert was well worth the price. The seatbelt rule bothers me not so much the price (40.00 every two years) as I sell mine local for 20-25 dollars. It’s more the labor required to change them out especially on my blue Duster.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Out dated helmets [Re: pittsburghracer] #2717824
11/20/19 12:15 PM
11/20/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,072
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
top fuel
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NE Ohio
I agree the current seat belt rule is ridiculous - 2 years is just a little short - Indy car says 5 years - I think NASCAR is the same - I can agree with the five year rule. - Diapers or pans are life saver and I think a good investment for anyone racing - I have seen too many cars get into their own oil at top end and end up in the wall or on their roof.

Re: Out dated helmets [Re: sgcuda] #2717893
11/20/19 06:23 PM
11/20/19 06:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 554
Usa
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A39Coronet Offline
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Usa
Let's say something crazy happens and you get severely injured or killed drag racing, and your life insurance finds out your safety equipment was in violation of posted rules...and they pin loss of life on it. Think they would pay out to your family? If $150 is too much, I'd hate to see the rest of your equipment, especially when I'm in the other lane. Even if that 1990 helmet is perfect, it's still old technology.

Things don't last forever.


Follow my G3 Hemi Barracuda build on Youtube
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Re: Out dated helmets [Re: A39Coronet] #2717899
11/20/19 06:38 PM
11/20/19 06:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,457
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Posts: 15,457
PA.
I got nabbed this year at Norwalk for a two foot section of my roll bar needing a piece of padding. I had removed it sometime ago for some reason and never put it back on. It’s in a really tight spot so I bought a piece of the new SFI rated padding that is now required. You wouldn’t believe the differenc between this and the old pipe insulation we used for years. It is so much denser.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Out dated helmets [Re: A39Coronet] #2717920
11/20/19 08:30 PM
11/20/19 08:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,498
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
W/r/t your life insurance finds out your safety equipment was in violation of posted rules...and they pin loss of life on it

This is quite possible, "contributory negligence" is claimed to reduce the award value. IMHO an insurance company is likely to use this as a bargaining chip, regardless of what actually happened, and let your lawyer argue that the accident was fatal regardless of helmet quality.
The question of "is a helmet that expired yesterday more dangerous than one still legal?" will be fun to watch. These are frequently decided on this basis: "what engineering data and destructive test results were used to determine exactly when a helmet has decayed significantly? (exactly 730 days, not 729)".
The surprising answers come back:
1. "we were told..."
2. "we just made it up, after that big donation from the helmet manufacturers"
3. "none ever actually failed from a crash, but we had to say something"
4. "we read about a helmet settlement in Kazakhstan in 1986 from a WW2 helmet, so we made it different"

Wasn't the best best money helmet can buy really helpful to Dale Earnhardt?

Last edited by polyspheric; 11/20/19 08:31 PM.

Boffin Emeritus
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717923
11/20/19 08:39 PM
11/20/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 34,973
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
I'm under the impression that Dale Earnhardt death was contributed to him (his crew, car builder, chassis builder) NOT having the lap belts attached properly to the car, his neck getting broken during the crash had nothing to do with the helmet work
I'm going to say the neck and head restraint systems required now are a result of his death, to bad they weren't invented and required before his last accident whiney


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717924
11/20/19 08:46 PM
11/20/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,683
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Quote
Wasn't the best best money helmet can buy really helpful to Dale Earnhardt?


No, But a lighter, composite helmet like the high end stuff sold now might have made a difference, and a HANS may have actually saved his life. Or is that another useless money making scam dreamed up by SFI?

And my advice would be to not tell your life insurance company you drive a race car. They'll dump you so fast, your head will spin.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 11/20/19 08:47 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Out dated helmets [Re: polyspheric] #2717942
11/20/19 10:06 PM
11/20/19 10:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,973
Trumussia
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jcc Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Trumussia
Originally Posted by polyspheric
W/r/t your life insurance finds out your safety equipment was in violation of posted rules...and they pin loss of life on it

This is quite possible, "contributory negligence" is claimed to reduce the award value. IMHO an insurance company is likely to use this as a bargaining chip, regardless of what actually happened,



Sorry, this position doesn't hold water.

Life insurance usually even pays in suicide, with certain restrictions, forget "contributory negligence", that's how most accidents happen anyway..

They don't give a crap how you kicked the bucket.

However if its a mega policy, they might exclude car racing in the the terms.


"Respect and Contempt are best served when justly earned"
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