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Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Sniper] #2714798
11/11/19 12:25 PM
11/11/19 12:25 PM
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State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline
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Yes. You do know they do it differently than the other car companies, right?

In Teslas case, they don't have dealer lots full of unsold cars. While their manufactured and sold & delivered counts aren't exactly the same every quarter, they're usually within a few thousand. Every car they deliver has been sold already.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Sniper] #2714859
11/11/19 03:27 PM
11/11/19 03:27 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit



There's a reason Tesla is selling nearly 100k cars per quarter right now.


Try again

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/tesla/

This is why no one believes the EV hype, it's all BS spread by fanbois.

30,600 first quarter of 2019
53.975 second quarter of 2019
54,700 third quarter of 2019

Not even close to 100k a quarter, in fact not much more than 100k for the three quarters combined.

Tesla is the epitome of PT Barnum's observation.


If you are referring to what I think you are, the original quote is actually attributed to H L Mencken but it's true none the less.

[quote]No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.[quote]

Kevin

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2714861
11/11/19 03:43 PM
11/11/19 03:43 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by Twostick
Be that as it may, the recycling process is not free, money, energy or emissions wise.

Kevin


duh? No one is saying they appeared from unicorn farts without needing energy along the way. They are saying (and showing) that it's more efficient to use things more than once, instead of removing stuff from the ground and burning it once.


Originally Posted by 2boltmain
BSB67 said "When EV become cost competitive, and charging station infrastructure becomes reasonably accessible, people will buy them. Its just a matter of when."

Very true. Both are huge hurdles that dont seem to have progress taking place. Definitely a moderate year round climate purchase.


There's a reason Tesla is selling nearly 100k cars per quarter right now. They have the longest range at the best price, and the largest charging network.

A lot of the problems with EVs is just the perception of them. The lowest range Model 3 will go 220 miles on one charge. The longest range Model S will do ~370. When you charge at home, you save enough time not going to get gas that the charging time on longer trips is (to most people) a fair trade off. Even then, it's gotten to ~10 minutes of charging per hour of driving.

------------------------

As for Lordstown, it sounds like one of the groups is looking at making trucks for fleet sales. Where I assume the customer would have a fleet of trucks that drive around during the day, then come "back home" at night to the same place where they can charge. Great use-case.

Workhorse is competing for the USPS EV delivery truck. Even my anti-government-at-every-level-USPS-employee friend agrees that even his rural route of ~80 miles would be ideal for an EV. In town routes are even shorted. Plus, their cabin heating/cooling can't be any worse than the LLVs laugh2


Duh? Nobody is pushing wind and solar power and EV's as being carbon/emissions free? I understand the part about it being better to have something reusable vs dig it up and it's gone but if the reusable one at the end of the day causes a similar amount of emissions to be put into the environment over the course of its useful lifespan, I'm not seeing the advantage to anyone but the guy selling it.

Kevin

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Twostick] #2714925
11/11/19 07:09 PM
11/11/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,482
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
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It makes me warm and fuzzy to see Moparts still being Moparts. up

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: BIGGERED] #2714931
11/11/19 07:31 PM
11/11/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Online content
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Originally Posted by BIGGERED


AFAIK Tesla designs and builds their own motors in the USA

Red


Yes. But I just don't see Musk's business model carrying over to the other manufacturer's. Could be wrong.

On another note, Porsche's new 800 volt battery claims to charge from 5% to 85% in 22.5 minutes. shruggy

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Twostick] #2715004
11/11/19 11:20 PM
11/11/19 11:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,174
State of Jefferson
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Originally Posted by Twostick
Duh? Nobody is pushing wind and solar power and EV's as being carbon/emissions free? I understand the part about it being better to have something reusable vs dig it up and it's gone but if the reusable one at the end of the day causes a similar amount of emissions to be put into the environment over the course of its useful lifespan, I'm not seeing the advantage to anyone but the guy selling it.

Kevin


They don't emit at time of use, which is a good thing. But yes, keeping an eye on the emissions they take to produce is a good thing to keep track of. Fun fact: by not paying for these health costs directly related to their use, fossil fuels are in effect receiving a subsidy.
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2014/04/how-e-zpass-lanes-could-reduce-premature-births/8995/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-drop-in-preterm-births-idUSKCN1J42J4

EVs do have more upfront emissions from production of the batteries, but if that power comes from wind/solar/hydro, does it really count?

Mercedes just released this, which is actually pretty interesting.
https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/6fec9d20-cbde-4760-810e-6e0e885f36af

For reference with the EQC:
The carbon footprint of a new car:
6 tonnes CO2e: Citroen C1, basic spec
17 tonnes CO2e: Ford Mondeo, medium spec
35 tonnes CO2e: Land Rover Discovery, top of the range

Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
It makes me warm and fuzzy to see Moparts still being Moparts. up

biggrin https://xkcd.com/386/ (pro-tip, hover over the images to get the rest of the joke in the alt-text)

Originally Posted by BSB67
Yes. But I just don't see Musk's business model carrying over to the other manufacturer's. Could be wrong.

It could be argued that that's the reason no other manufacturer can make a car with better specs than the 2013 Model S, here in 2019. They were able to do an entirely new design from the ground up without having legacy ideas holding them back. Sandy Munro has talked pretty extensively about this in the past (particularly the "Superbottle").


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2715063
11/12/19 09:50 AM
11/12/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 11,985
north of coder
moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
It makes me warm and fuzzy to see Moparts still being Moparts. up


and since there is snow on the ground, and it's cold weather wize, it's now officially WINTER. biggrin
beer

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: moparx] #2715067
11/12/19 10:02 AM
11/12/19 10:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Holland MI Ottawa
2
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From what I see -mainly on a channel named Rich Rebuilds (Software engineer that rebuilds wrecked Teslas and now operates a Tesla repair shop) Tesla is not cooperative with selling parts. If a car has been totaled they "No longer service or provide service to that car." Tesla would not even sell Rich Rebuilds (Benoit) an APP for his car because it was a repaired total. Tesla has sheltered themselves in and this means independent shops may not be able to get parts- or may have to jump thru hoops. This hurts the buying public. I bet when one buys a Tesla they're not thinking about repairs AFTER the warranty expires. That is on them but at least GM and others sell parts to the public. This type of model will never be suitable for mainstream folks long term.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: moparx] #2715069
11/12/19 10:04 AM
11/12/19 10:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,636
...to Paradise from ParaICE !
Doc Fiberglass Offline
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...to Paradise from ParaICE !
Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
It makes me warm and fuzzy to see Moparts still being Moparts. up


and since there is snow on the ground, and it's cold weather wize, it's now officially WINTER. biggrin
beer


Nooooo ... it’s only officially wInTeR when the pesky pink poster is posting like a mAdMaN !


...... roger that .., whackin’ the whack JOBS is my mission ...a noble Crusader !
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2717403
11/19/19 03:10 AM
11/19/19 03:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,482
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
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Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda


I believe the electric vehicle craze is a fad


https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-mach-e

MachE.jpg
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2717411
11/19/19 04:53 AM
11/19/19 04:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,615
jersey
S
Spaceman Spiff Offline
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jersey
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda


I believe the electric vehicle craze is a fad


https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-mach-e


Just because a manufacturer is jumping onto the bandwagon, of an already overly saturated marked, doesn’t mean it isn’t a fad... you’re pointing to a vehicle they don’t even make yet.


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2717412
11/19/19 05:03 AM
11/19/19 05:03 AM
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jersey
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit



There's a reason Tesla is selling nearly 100k cars per quarter right now.


Try again

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/tesla/

This is why no one believes the EV hype, it's all BS spread by fanbois.

30,600 first quarter of 2019
53.975 second quarter of 2019
54,700 third quarter of 2019

Not even close to 100k a quarter, in fact not much more than 100k for the three quarters combined.

Tesla is the epitome of PT Barnum's observation.


*Globally. Even in the US, they delivered almost double from Q1 to Q3. They're selling everything they can build. The new plant in China that broke ground in January 2019 is producing test articles right now, and will ramp next quarter. A lot of people (and other car companies) wanted EVs to be a fad. They're here to stay. We'll probably have this same discussion next year, just like we did last year laugh2


I see your not debating your false claim of 100,000 vehicles...


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2717415
11/19/19 05:58 AM
11/19/19 05:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,962
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Online content
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Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda


I believe the electric vehicle craze is a fad


https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-mach-e


Just because a manufacturer is jumping onto the bandwagon, of an already overly saturated marked, doesn’t mean it isn’t a fad... you’re pointing to a vehicle they don’t even make yet.


Maybe.

Between the focus, dialog, planned expenditures and how fast the technology is changing in this space it's hard to believe that its not coming.

Arguably the whole EV craze got started by environmental radicals that really don't reflect the beliefs of everyone. But at the end of the day, people will buy what is cheap, available, and convenient. Most of the folks I know that have hybrid cars bought for cost reasons, not to save the planet.

So to me it comes down to infrastructure, and how governments are going to recoup the billions of $ in lost tax revenue.

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2717478
11/19/19 11:19 AM
11/19/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,174
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline
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Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit



There's a reason Tesla is selling nearly 100k cars per quarter right now.


Try again

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/tesla/

This is why no one believes the EV hype, it's all BS spread by fanbois.

30,600 first quarter of 2019
53.975 second quarter of 2019
54,700 third quarter of 2019

Not even close to 100k a quarter, in fact not much more than 100k for the three quarters combined.

Tesla is the epitome of PT Barnum's observation.


*Globally. Even in the US, they delivered almost double from Q1 to Q3. They're selling everything they can build. The new plant in China that broke ground in January 2019 is producing test articles right now, and will ramp next quarter. A lot of people (and other car companies) wanted EVs to be a fad. They're here to stay. We'll probably have this same discussion next year, just like we did last year laugh2


I see your not debating your false claim of 100,000 vehicles...


confused

A quick google search on bing shows that in Q3 of 2019, they sold 97,000 cars globally. I would call that "nearly 100k cars per quarter right now". Q2 was 95,200.

Originally Posted by BSB67
Maybe.

Between the focus, dialog, planned expenditures and how fast the technology is changing in this space it's hard to believe that its not coming.

Arguably the whole EV craze got started by environmental radicals that really don't reflect the beliefs of everyone. But at the end of the day, people will buy what is cheap, available, and convenient. Most of the folks I know that have hybrid cars bought for cost reasons, not to save the planet.

So to me it comes down to infrastructure, and how governments are going to recoup the billions of $ in lost tax revenue.


And there it is. The early adopters of nearly every new technology/gadget are the ones that are passionate about it. As EVs continue to get more convenient and cheaper for "normal" folks, they'll sell more.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2717539
11/19/19 01:13 PM
11/19/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,482
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
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Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff


Just because a manufacturer is jumping onto the bandwagon, of an already overly saturated marked, doesn’t mean it isn’t a fad... you’re pointing to a vehicle they don’t even make yet.


Isn't it amazing that several $billion companies have set their sights on an American company called Tesla?

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2717576
11/19/19 02:31 PM
11/19/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
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When the automobile first came out, there wasn't an infrastructure of gas stations either. It took time. And it will with charging stations. People once thought the automobile was a fad too; not to mention numerous other things that are part of our daily lives today. Many here want to dismiss EVs in that manner because of their love affair with the ICE. A technology allowed to exist way longer than it should.

The electric motor has always been far superior than the neanderthal combustion engine. Instant power, huge amounts of torque and extremely less moving parts. The issue has always been how to power it with a mobile source that will last a long time and recharge quickly. And now it's here and will only get better and better. It's a wave that will finally flush the circling ICE turd down the toilet.

Just the elimination of fluids alone and their maintenance is a big plus. Not to mention, no liquid fuel delivery systems, exhaust systems, emissions garbage, pumps, filters, or the multitude of other dopey maintenance, parts, and systems.

Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: NicBuc] #2717765
11/20/19 04:56 AM
11/20/19 04:56 AM
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Posts: 4,017
Holland MI Ottawa
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2boltmain Offline
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If I were a betting man Id wager electric vehicles will not be a worthy threat to the "ICE" powered vehicles in my lifetime. (Im 50.) Electric on paper has its advantages but their negatives far outweigh them. Average Joe blow citizen today in the US chooses to buy and own an older car (11.8 years old USA Today) and many of them are neglected but still seem to run. Will a 11.8 year old EV thats been neglected be a viable option for Joe public? Nothing wrong with rooting for and being a big fan of EVs. But to boast that the Internal Combustion Engine is dead is very premature. People who live in a year round 71 degree climate and commute locally would do very well even excellent with an EV. But to be the new future of transportation as some are proclaiming- electric cars need to be viable in all seasonal conditions and currently they are not. In the 50s many were convinced the future was chrome plated and domed. Nice thought but not practical.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: Lordstown Ohio GM plant sold [Re: NicBuc] #2717867
11/20/19 03:10 PM
11/20/19 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,897
Morningside
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Originally Posted by NicBuc
When the automobile first came out, there wasn't an infrastructure of gas stations either. It took time. And it will with charging stations. People once thought the automobile was a fad too; not to mention numerous other things that are part of our daily lives today. Many here want to dismiss EVs in that manner because of their love affair with the ICE. A technology allowed to exist way longer than it should.

The electric motor has always been far superior than the neanderthal combustion engine. Instant power, huge amounts of torque and extremely less moving parts. The issue has always been how to power it with a mobile source that will last a long time and recharge quickly. And now it's here and will only get better and better. It's a wave that will finally flush the circling ICE turd down the toilet.

Just the elimination of fluids alone and their maintenance is a big plus. Not to mention, no liquid fuel delivery systems, exhaust systems, emissions garbage, pumps, filters, or the multitude of other dopey maintenance, parts, and systems.


You are not wrong. Although I'm hesitant to switch to an electric vehicle...I'll be interested to see what Chrysler comes up with in the next few years.

JS


76 Dodge Adventurer Sport Power Wagon W100 318, 727, NP203 Fulltime 4x4 Russet Red
06 Jeep Commander Ltd 4x4, 5.7L Hemi, QuadraDrive II
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11 Dodge Ram 1500 LoneStar Quad Cab, 5.7L HEMI, Fulltime 4x4, Deep Cherry Red
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