Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2715683
11/14/19 12:41 PM
11/14/19 12:41 PM
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Posts: 14,491 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Yeh....... big motors don’t rev Yes..... it’s 1005ci........ making solidly over 2hp/ci
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2715698
11/14/19 01:05 PM
11/14/19 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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fast68plymouth
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how come so many 500+ ci motors can't get into the 9.70's? I take it from your question that all 470’s must be runnng 9.70’s then. Or at the very least that more 470’s are running 9.70’s or quicker than people with motors that are 500” or bigger. If the 470 is so much more efficient than the 511, and efficiency is in fact the key to making more power....... then it just stands to reason that keeping it at 400” would be even more efficient....... less friction from better rod ratio....... you’d make even more power!!!
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2715700
11/14/19 01:07 PM
11/14/19 01:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Harry's Taxi 2
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I always get a chuckle out the “cubes don’t matter” arguments. If that were the case, then why is it in pretty much any racing series or class that has a cube limit........basically has the entire field running the max allowed? Take NHRA Pro Stock.......bump the limit to 550ci. No one that stayed at 500” would be competitive in a very short amount of time. Having a combination be more “efficient” isn’t the same thing as making more “power”. A 470 making 700hp is 1.489hp/ci A 511 making 735hp is less efficient at 1.438hp/ci....... but it’s still 35hp more. As for the 4.25 stroke/6.535 thing being some sort of hurdle to overcome........ This is one of their budget friendly combos: https://www.shafiroff.com/chevy-drag-race-engine-sportsman/565-big-block-drag-race.phpHere’s another one....... more hp, more rpm...... same stroke and rod length: https://www.shafiroff.com/chevy-drag-race-engine-pro/565-big-block-drag-race.phThe rod ratio for a 6.535 rod and a 4.25 stroke is 1.53....... same as a stock 454 or 502 Chevy. Shafiroff also sells a 440” small block with a 6.00 rod and a 4.00 crank, which has a slightly poorer rod ratio of 1.50...... that one makes 950hp. Peak tq @6800....... peak hp @8100. Have you found that the same cubic inches with a lesser r/s ratio require more cylinder head flow and/or more cam timing to peak at the same rpm?
Last edited by Harry's Taxi 2; 11/14/19 01:08 PM.
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: Harry's Taxi 2]
#2715709
11/14/19 01:15 PM
11/14/19 01:15 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Look at it in the most simple of terms......
440 vs 383. Both running 10:1 Cr, ootb rpm heads, rpm intake manifold, 850 carb, 1-7/8” headers, MP 509 cam, same rockers.
Which wins that battle on the dyno and at the track in a 3500lb street/strip car?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2715711
11/14/19 01:19 PM
11/14/19 01:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Cab_Burge
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/14/19 01:20 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2715717
11/14/19 01:35 PM
11/14/19 01:35 PM
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an8sec70cuda
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I was just thinking I should take 3/4" of stroke out of my motor so I can go faster next year.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2715721
11/14/19 01:42 PM
11/14/19 01:42 PM
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Thumperdart
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No sir and as we know some people can screw up anything but I've beat bigger motors a lot and power adder cars on the street easy so it boils down to the COMPLETE combo. But, top fuel 330+ mph and only 500 cubes.................What's up with that........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: mopar dave]
#2715760
11/14/19 03:31 PM
11/14/19 03:31 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Yeah, the issue with this conversation is the possible parasitic loss cant be measured It can’t?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: mopar dave]
#2715764
11/14/19 03:41 PM
11/14/19 03:41 PM
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fast68plymouth
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I understand, but in all fairness the 440 has a bigger bore allowing the 440 to breath better. No problem...... 426 vs 383. Same bore and the 383 has the higher rod ratio. Or better yet..... 383 vs a 383 stroked to 442(4.25 bore x 3.90 stroke). 383 rod ratio = 1.88 442 rod ratio = 1.71 Same scenario...... 10:1, rpm heads, rpm intake, 1-7/8 headers, 509 cam, 850 carb........ which wins that battle? Not only will the bigger motor make more power...... I’m thinking the difference in power will be at least what the difference in the cubes is.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2715766
11/14/19 03:45 PM
11/14/19 03:45 PM
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Cab_Burge
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No sir and as we know some people can screw up anything but I've beat bigger motors a lot and power adder cars on the street easy so it boils down to the COMPLETE combo. But, top fuel 330+ mph and only 500 cubes.................What's up with that........ Top Fuel motors use a smaller bore with a longer stroke than the same C.I. motor that Pro Stock use, two different motors with the same C.I. rules but not in the same world are they H.D. Diesel ruck motors use a lot longer stroke than bore also, correct As well as inline 6 cyl. instead of V8 also Apples to apples and dust to dust
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Andy, your 470/270TF indy 440-3 results
[Re: mopar dave]
#2715782
11/14/19 04:25 PM
11/14/19 04:25 PM
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CSK
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I can agree with that. I would never say longer stroker motors are a bad thing. I think they all have there place and if we could remove the paracidic drag that they create as you go up in stroke, how much would there be to gain. who knows, just something to think about Think about this Mopar dave, all things the same except the stroke , the smaller 470 cid has to turn more RPM than a 512 to make the same HP, more RPM is ALSO more friction per minute
Last edited by csk; 11/14/19 04:26 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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