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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: HotRodDave] #2729285
01/02/20 10:24 AM
01/02/20 10:24 AM
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sixpackgut Offline
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Apache valve spring at coil bind

20200102_092044.jpg

Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: sixpackgut] #2729363
01/02/20 03:09 PM
01/02/20 03:09 PM
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All I know is what I did and have done in the past and it works great, perhaps the actual valve lift don't match theoretical, wouldn't be the first time, my good dial indicator sprouted legs and runnoft and now the engine is all together and running. The first one I did is in a 3/4 ton work truck that now has 30,000 hard miles on it and still running great. I know my methods might not always be the most scientific butt the results are that it works. Do you have an assembled engine with that cam you can see how much lift is lost in real world?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Cam recommenations [Re: HotRodDave] #2729513
01/02/20 11:18 PM
01/02/20 11:18 PM
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sixpackgut Offline
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I have a 6.4 truck motor. Im not sure what size cam is in it. It would be very hard to check. I would need to take it apart and put checker pushrods in it and my shimmed lifters and Im not sure what the cam lift even is on the truck motors.

Honesty, Im at a complete loss. I wouldn't think you would have got 3 miles out of it.
2.015-.080-1.40=.535


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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: sixpackgut] #2729668
01/03/20 02:39 PM
01/03/20 02:39 PM
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the 6.4 truck motor has a smaller cam, in between the 6.4 car and 5.7 eagle cam, that is not what I am running. I did have a valve job done on these heads (didn't really need it so just a light touch up) butt most of the other ones I have done did not get a VJ, just cam and spring swap. I pretty much set em all up the same way, shim it to basically coil bind and remove .040 or .050.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Cam recommenations [Re: HotRodDave] #2729810
01/03/20 09:02 PM
01/03/20 09:02 PM
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sixpackgut Offline
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Originally Posted by HotRodDave
the 6.4 truck motor has a smaller cam, in between the 6.4 car and 5.7 eagle cam, that is not what I am running. I did have a valve job done on these heads (didn't really need it so just a light touch up) butt most of the other ones I have done did not get a VJ, just cam and spring swap. I pretty much set em all up the same way, shim it to basically coil bind and remove .040 or .050.


Unless Im doing the math wrong somehow, there is no way it can work. 40 thousands of problems before full lift is even reached


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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: sixpackgut] #2729828
01/03/20 09:36 PM
01/03/20 09:36 PM
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I'm terrible at math so don't ask me that part, that is part of the reason I do it the way I do.

I got to fart with the VVT hopefully tommorow, maybe if I got enough time I'll pull the valve cover and try to get a measurement of the actual (not theoretical) lift.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Cam recommenations [Re: HotRodDave] #2731298
01/09/20 12:31 AM
01/09/20 12:31 AM
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I just got a used 392 cam for cheap so now I'm really interested in what y'all converge on. Sounds like Ray #1 says no way, Ray #2 used the stock eagle springs but 1/2 the OEM shim height, (or did you used the springs you linked?) and HRD went with 6.4 springs and shims and also made it work?

Last edited by furious70; 01/09/20 12:32 AM.

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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: furious70] #2731511
01/09/20 06:13 PM
01/09/20 06:13 PM
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check check and double check. I am no good at math so I use the method I described, seems pretty fool proof in my little brain. I have also used them in 5.7s with out pulling the springs and just leaving the stockers in there.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Cam recommenations [Re: HotRodDave] #2731583
01/09/20 09:41 PM
01/09/20 09:41 PM
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biff426 Offline OP
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After some research I ordered this spring 68277306AA they were $4,69 per spring. I am told these are the mopar performance spring they sell in the kit for the 5.7 and 6.4. I have not received them yet but when I do I will report on them. I plan to check the pressures etc. I am going to use this spring with the 6.4 MDS cam in the 5.7.

Re: Cam recommenations [Re: biff426] #2731657
01/10/20 09:39 AM
01/10/20 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by biff426
After some research I ordered this spring 68277306AA they were $4,69 per spring. I am told these are the mopar performance spring they sell in the kit for the 5.7 and 6.4. I have not received them yet but when I do I will report on them. I plan to check the pressures etc. I am going to use this spring with the 6.4 MDS cam in the 5.7.


Where did you order from because summit and jegs the price is double and triple what you paid. And please report back with coil bind numbers.

For my customers running stock cams such as a 6.1 or 6.4 cam, i have been using stock ls7 springs. Problem with the ls7 springs is they are down on pressure compared to stock mopar springs. But I think even the PAC springs are down on pressure compared to stock springs.

For balls out, I only use the PSI springs. I have used the Comp conical springs in some LS applications. The Comp conical springs have incredible pressures for a single spring


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: furious70] #2731695
01/10/20 11:14 AM
01/10/20 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by furious70
I just got a used 392 cam for cheap so now I'm really interested in what y'all converge on. Sounds like Ray #1 says no way, Ray #2 used the stock eagle springs but 1/2 the OEM shim height, (or did you used the springs you linked?) and HRD went with 6.4 springs and shims and also made it work?



On my 5.7 in my 09 we used the stock Eagle springs, when I had the heads redone , we went with the Mopar springs., I'm home today so I'll get a measurement on the spare MDS SRT cam I have .


1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress)
1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE
1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph
1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA
1996 Viper GTS
2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor
2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA
2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA
2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s

Re: Cam recommenations [Re: sixpackgut] #2731755
01/10/20 01:41 PM
01/10/20 01:41 PM
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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: furious70] #2731860
01/10/20 04:50 PM
01/10/20 04:50 PM
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shipping is a little better with these guys $17

https://parts.moparonlineparts.com/index.php?p=cart


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Cam recommenations [Re: sixpackgut] #2731864
01/10/20 05:10 PM
01/10/20 05:10 PM
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Deland, Florida
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biff426 Offline OP
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Eastcoast Moparts $69.92 including shipping they delivered today

Re: Cam recommenations [Re: biff426] #2731870
01/10/20 05:23 PM
01/10/20 05:23 PM
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is their a PN for these shims y'all have been talking about?


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Cam recommenations [Re: sixpackgut] #2731934
01/10/20 07:37 PM
01/10/20 07:37 PM
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biff426 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by sixpackgut
Originally Posted by biff426
After some research I ordered this spring 68277306AA they were $4,69 per spring. I am told these are the mopar performance spring they sell in the kit for the 5.7 and 6.4. I have not received them yet but when I do I will report on them. I plan to check the pressures etc. I am going to use this spring with the 6.4 MDS cam in the 5.7.


Where did you order from because summit and jegs the price is double and triple what you paid. And please report back with coil bind numbers.

For my customers running stock cams such as a 6.1 or 6.4 cam, i have been using stock ls7 springs. Problem with the ls7 springs is they are down on pressure compared to stock mopar springs. But I think even the PAC springs are down on pressure compared to stock springs.

For balls out, I only use the PSI springs. I have used the Comp conical springs in some LS applications. The Comp conical springs have incredible pressures for a single spring


Coil bind on these is 1.295 no pressure numbers yet

Re: Cam recommenations [Re: biff426] #2731977
01/10/20 09:42 PM
01/10/20 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by biff426
Originally Posted by sixpackgut
Originally Posted by biff426
After some research I ordered this spring 68277306AA they were $4,69 per spring. I am told these are the mopar performance spring they sell in the kit for the 5.7 and 6.4. I have not received them yet but when I do I will report on them. I plan to check the pressures etc. I am going to use this spring with the 6.4 MDS cam in the 5.7.


Where did you order from because summit and jegs the price is double and triple what you paid. And please report back with coil bind numbers.

For my customers running stock cams such as a 6.1 or 6.4 cam, i have been using stock ls7 springs. Problem with the ls7 springs is they are down on pressure compared to stock mopar springs. But I think even the PAC springs are down on pressure compared to stock springs.

For balls out, I only use the PSI springs. I have used the Comp conical springs in some LS applications. The Comp conical springs have incredible pressures for a single spring


Coil bind on these is 1.295 no pressure numbers yet


1.98-.04 shim -1.30 coil bind is .640 -.050, good for .590

I like it. I'll start using them

Could you check coilbind on a bunch of them? For consistency

Last edited by sixpackgut; 01/10/20 09:44 PM.

Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: Cam recommenations [Re: Ray408G3Hemi] #2732092
01/11/20 11:08 AM
01/11/20 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray408G3Hemi
Originally Posted by furious70
I just got a used 392 cam for cheap so now I'm really interested in what y'all converge on. Sounds like Ray #1 says no way, Ray #2 used the stock eagle springs but 1/2 the OEM shim height, (or did you used the springs you linked?) and HRD went with 6.4 springs and shims and also made it work?



On my 5.7 in my 09 we used the stock Eagle springs, when I had the heads redone , we went with the Mopar springs., I'm home today so I'll get a measurement on the spare MDS SRT cam I have .





I came up with .574 (Average) on all the intake lobes,


1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress)
1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE
1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph
1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA
1996 Viper GTS
2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor
2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA
2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA
2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s

Re: Cam recommenations [Re: Ray408G3Hemi] #2732711
01/13/20 02:14 PM
01/13/20 02:14 PM
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Ray did you check actual valve lift with real springs, check springs or just theoretical at the lobe?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Cam recommenations [Re: HotRodDave] #2733011
01/14/20 03:44 PM
01/14/20 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by HotRodDave
Ray did you check actual valve lift with real springs, check springs or just theoretical at the lobe?


Just the lobe..... and base circle , with rocker shaft flex and pre-load in the lifter I would think actual lift is some where in the .560 range, I think pre-load is .060-080 I can't imagine that it would lose more than .01-02 of actual lift in a running engine. I could be wrong I'm a parts assembler when it comes to engines , not builder like some of the guys ...... I know the stock shaft can flex up .0.010


1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress)
1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE
1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph
1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA
1996 Viper GTS
2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor
2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA
2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA
2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s

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