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Question: "low voltage at idle" deal #2714283
11/09/19 04:34 PM
11/09/19 04:34 PM
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hemienvy Online content OP
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Been reading a lot about this lately, there are several well known remedies.

My question is, does low voltage also keep the turn signal and hazard flashers from working properly ?

1979 D-150. I cannot figure out why the turn signals are so intermittant.

Related question: What do folks use to clean the contacts at plug-in points, male and female plug-ins ?

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714287
11/09/19 04:52 PM
11/09/19 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hemienvy
Been reading a lot about this lately, there are several well known remedies.

My question is, does low voltage also keep the turn signal and hazard flashers from working properly ?

1979 D-150. I cannot figure out why the turn signals are so intermittant.


Might act slower, but not intermittent.

Originally Posted by hemienvy
Related question: What do folks use to clean the contacts at plug-in points, male and female plug-ins ?


Deoxit

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714323
11/09/19 07:07 PM
11/09/19 07:07 PM
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Cleaning will reduce voltage drops due to resistance.
Lower voltage at idle is generally not a resistance issue. Its a lack of power generation at idle rpms. Resistance to current feeding the rotor (and in the return) can contribute to this, but if its really low then its worth troubleshooting.
If its resistance, that will show as voltage drops in the circuit current is flowing in.
If its at the alternator, do a full field check to see if its the alt or the VR.
If its the alt, then check for blown diode(s) or one of the windings is open or shorted. Lose any one of the 3 stator or rotor windings, or the rectified output from same, and power production will drop accordingly.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714325
11/09/19 07:15 PM
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Resistance in the turn signal circuit would reduce the current through the flasher unit, slowing down. I agree with Sniper.
In the '79 truck wiring diagrams Krautrock posted the other day, IIRC it looked like the turn and hazzard flashers were in the fusebox.

Other connectors that can sometimes be problematic are the ones for the steering column. Depends on specific conditions.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714462
11/10/19 10:17 AM
11/10/19 10:17 AM
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i rewired the alt output on my truck, (it's a 77 but i had the '79 wiring diagram), the bulkhead was bad, the connection going into it and feeding the electronics inside and the ammeter had alot of resistance.
after rewiring, the turn signals did flash alot more consistent, also brighter and faster.
wipers also work alot better, even at idle...

i found this after i had rewired it, it's similar to what i did.
https://ramchargercentral.com/electrical/ammeter-bypassbulkhead-fix/


Last edited by krautrock; 11/10/19 10:19 AM.
Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: krautrock] #2714474
11/10/19 11:06 AM
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The problem with that write up, and all the others like it, is that its based on a fundemental misunderstanding about power.

The 'full alternator power' NEVER flows through the ammeter.
Power flows from the highest voltage source (usually the alternator) to the equipment, be it ignition, headlights, or whatever.
The only alternator power through the ammeter is power needed for recharging.

The problems occur when the battery is run down a lot, then needs massive recharging; and more so when other stuff is attached to the battery side. Stuff like winches.
It did not help that the ammeters on a several years of those trucks were in plastic housings. Running 40 ampos or more through those circuits was bound to heat stuff up. Then the pressed studs got loose.

But that doesn't change the fact that I began with. On a truck with no added accessories, power from the alternator does not flow through the ammeter, except what is needed to recharge the battery.

Charging-diagram6x-charging2plus.pngCharging-diagram6x-runplus.pngAmmeter-zero-Master-Tech1960.png
Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714485
11/10/19 11:41 AM
11/10/19 11:41 AM
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Note: The above schematics show a points ignition and pre-1970 positive controlling voltage regulator.
Power distribution concept is the same as what you have.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714535
11/10/19 01:50 PM
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Thanks Mattax !

I've been studying the heck out of the 1979 electrical schematics. When I first posted, I wasn't sure if the
plug-in flasher units were voltage sensitive, the hazard and the turn signal units.

But now I have additional uncertainty about how the parking lights and the turn/hazard light system even works.
I can't make sense of the circuits, the current flow. The schematic does not show the bulbs to be grounded,
so where is the end of the circuit ?

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714548
11/10/19 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hemienvy
Thanks Mattax !

I've been studying the heck out of the 1979 electrical schematics. When I first posted, I wasn't sure if the
plug-in flasher units were voltage sensitive, the hazard and the turn signal units.

But now I have additional uncertainty about how the parking lights and the turn/hazard light system even works.
I can't make sense of the circuits, the current flow. The schematic does not show the bulbs to be grounded,
so where is the end of the circuit ?


I don't have the full schematics - just the pages 2 through 5 that Krautrock posted in another thread.
My guess is yes they are grounded. Maybe the socket is in direct contact with metal housing?

As far as voltage sensitivity - indirectly yes they are.
The flasher units have a metal or bi-metal strip the current flow through. The current heats up the strip, and it bends or snaps away from the contact breaking the circuit until it cools again.
Current drawn by any bulb is voltage dependent.
Lets take an 1157 bulb's brighter filment as an example.
It's rated to draw 2.1 amps at 12.8 Volts.
When provided power at high voltage, say 14.5 Volts, it will draw more current. It will also burn hotter and brighter.
Yes - Give it too much voltage and it will burn itself out kindof like a fuse.

The catch is that the bulbs must see that higher voltage to draw more current.
Even when the alternator is producing power at 14.5 Volts, resistance in the connections leading to the turn signal circuit will reduce the voltage to some extent.

I'll look at the diagrams I do have and see if it the turn signal and parking light circuits look similar to the set up in my '67 Barracuda or '85 Grand? Wagoneer

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714552
11/10/19 03:17 PM
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The scheme looks similar to my '67.

On the '79 diagram, the upper half of the fusebox consists of circuits that only get power when the keyswitch position is in run or accessory.
I can not make out exactly which feed connects to the turn signal.
It is probably one of the 'Accessory' feed wires, Q1A or Q2.

The lower half of the fuse box is always hot. The hazzard flasher gets a dedicated wire direct from the battery (F38). Older cars (and prob trucks) just use a shared buss bar in the fusebox.

1979-truck-p45-turn-sig.png
Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714555
11/10/19 03:35 PM
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When the turn signal switch is flipped up, current can flow through the flasher down the switch feed (F38) to the front and rear lamps. If its a right turn signal, that's the light green and dark green wires.

For brake lights, I read the the diagram as power to the white wire S17. This goes through the hazzard switch as long as it is in OFF position. From the hazzard switch it feeds the rear lamps regardless of whether the turn signal is blinking one of the. But it might be like my '67 and where it only feeds the one not blinking.
This is how Chrysler illustrated the turn switch in a 1968 Master tech booklet.
I've colorized the switch's brass contact surfaces.

1968TurnSignal-colorized.png1968TurnSignal-colorized-left.png
Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714559
11/10/19 03:50 PM
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Parking lights.
Its hard to tell from the diagram - I think there's a connection missing or other small error.
They may share the same fuse as the stop lights.
But the stop lights get power from wire F38, and the parking lights get power from F37. At least that's what it looks like to me.
F37 should connect to the second power feed terminal on the headlight. When the switch is pulled out, power to the lights goes through green, tan and or yellow wires.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714596
11/10/19 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hemienvy


Related question: What do folks use to clean the contacts at plug-in points, male and female plug-ins ?
I disassemble each connector from the harness one at a time, by pushing in on the locking barbs with a jewelers screwdriver, and once out I use a dremel with a wire brush attachment to scrub them clean.Then I bend the locking barbs back into position, use some dielectric grease on the connector and snap it back into place in it's respective place in the harness.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Sixpak] #2714667
11/10/19 10:30 PM
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Sixpak,
I guess I just have to agree that there is no shortcut for being meticulous.

Mattax, I looked closer at the bulb sockets, 1157's HAVE TO be grounded.
Also, after I put in the direct alternator - to - battery line, I have about 14.5 volts at normal idle, all around the hot circuit.

Only thing I don't have now is hazard flashers, even though I have 14 volts at the flasher hot side. I've been meaning to replace
the turn signal switch assembly anyway. I don't want to take apart the steering wheel stuff until I have replacement parts in hand.
I'm guessing the hazard switch is part of that.

It is looking better !

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714696
11/11/19 01:49 AM
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Hemienvy, where in Washington might you be? I am fair at electrical issues. I live in 'Little Detroit of the West".

I just rewired my sons 1974 D200's under hood due to so many corroded connectors. On Ebay you can get new Bulkhead male and female connectors that lock in the bulkheads plastic.
His 10 gauge alternator feed to the Amp meter was bad and the return to the battery was totally melted and not charging the battery. His headlight wires were 18 gauge, not the 16 gauge as in the wiring diagram. They are now 14 gauge.


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Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Dave_J] #2714732
11/11/19 10:25 AM
11/11/19 10:25 AM
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You can replace the stock type flashers with fully electronic units. You can get them at your local parts store. They will plug into your existing wiring. The body of the flasher might be a little larger then stock and might not fit into the retainer correctly however. Your turn signals will flash at a consistent rate. You are doing the correct thing in checking and cleaning all your wiring connection though.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Mattax] #2714738
11/11/19 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattax

I don't have the full schematics - just the pages 2 through 5 that Krautrock posted in another thread.
My guess is yes they are grounded. Maybe the socket is in direct contact with metal housing?


I forgot where I got that schematic, I saved it to my computer. I see now, that little mymopar.com tag on the bottom though, just poked through that site and found it...

link to download the pdf...
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/79_Dodge_Truck_Wiring_Diagram.zip

edit:
link to the page with the schematics.
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

Last edited by krautrock; 11/11/19 10:33 AM.
Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714787
11/11/19 01:07 PM
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Quote
Thanks Mattax !
X2 appreciated


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: Dave_J] #2714816
11/11/19 02:33 PM
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Dave J, I'm north of you, in the Stanwood area.

The truck is in pretty good shape overall. It's bare bones, no A/C, no radio, it has a heater and windshield wipers !
Even the ammeter & bulkhead connections are in good shape. It's 40 years old though and needs a bit of cleanup.

Burdar I put in new flasher dealies for both turn signals and hazard. I can swap the two units and still I have turn signals
but no hazard. Right now the turn signals won't turn off after a turn, so I want to replace the turn switch anyway.
I haven't searched yet for that, I would prefer to find an NOS piece if possible but maybe they are now unobtanium.

Re: Question: "low voltage at idle" deal [Re: hemienvy] #2714833
11/11/19 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hemienvy


Burdar I put in new flasher dealies for both turn signals and hazard. I can swap the two units and still I have turn signals
but no hazard. Right now the turn signals won't turn off after a turn, so I want to replace the turn switch anyway.
I haven't searched yet for that, I would prefer to find an NOS piece if possible but maybe they are now unobtanium.

Dan Stern (Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy) had some but not sure if they are the correct ones for your truck.
He posts on FABO and Slant Six forums but you could just look up his website for contact info.


Looking at the full size pdf for the '79 truck,
The turn signal flasher gets power from the run circuit. J10A feeds the fuse. The fuse in turn feeds the flasher via the short connector (F11A)
Hazzard is fed from F38 (prple with white) which comes direct from the battery. So check that for power into the fuse. The hazzard fuse connects to the flasher via F40 (pink). Check that next.

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