For example, my "7-quart" Milodon 30930 pan.
Is that the sump capacity full to the baffle? Including the "wings" above the sump? Or is there no standard measurement?

I suppose I could pour a measured amount of oil into it and see where the level is, but I'm lazy

pour 7 qts of any liquid in & see what you get

I’ve wondered about this myself.

How far below the block rail is optimum oil level, and is that with or without a windage tray?

Sees to me that as long as the level IS below the tray it would be good as that level will drop when engine is running but when I checked mine I was able to fit an absurd amount in the pan (like 8 quarts) before reaching the tray——-so I abandoned that thinking.

IIRC 5 quarts barely filled the sump.

Years ago at one of the old Mopar drag seminars one of the Mopar engineers said they had put a plastic window on the side of the oil pan on one of their dyno testing mule motors and found that there would be between 1.5 up to 3 full quarts of oil being blown around inside the motor when revved up so they suggested to not worry about over filling a BB V8 or 426 hemi oil pan by one or two quarts
I have built motors and intentionally left the timing cover off on the engine stand so I could see how much oil it would take to fill it up to the bottom of the windage tray, 6+ quarts on the 402 pan and almost 7 full quart o n the 1966 to 1969 stock street Hemi pans
I'm going to check a new 440 block pump gas stroker motor I'm getting ready to assemble with the 1970/1971 Hemi and 440 6 pack 6 quart oil pans, I'm betting it will take almost 8 quarts to get to the bottom of a stock Mopar windage tray
I'll try to post the results on here before the end of this year, hopefully

How far into the pan does the dipstick go?
Seems like it would be same distance, so below that is what the pan holds?

Thanks for the detailed comments.

Yes, of course I could measure it directly I guess what I was really asking was, where should I set the oil level in this nominally 7 qt. pan... Dipstick isn't factory either, so there's another variable. But I will check and see how far the current full mark is below the block rail.

I have a Hughes stud girdle and the relatively deep Milodon 30930, at least for now. (Considering saving up for a 31580 road-race pan, and will probably bend over and pay for one after the first hole in my current pan ).
With the deeper sump, will there still be a significant advantage at high rpm to using a windage tray also? I've read lots of threads both pro and con...

Without a scraper or windage tray the oil should be 6” or more from any rotating component for a maximum effort race motor.
(For a street motor you can obviously get by with it being closer. I think most baffles are around 3” away from any rotating part).

With a windage tray the oil level should be below the tray.

With a scraper I have heard several reports that the oil should be at least three inches away from any rotating part - the more the better..

As for pan capacity - depends on what you are going to do with the motor.

For street use you should determine the oil capacity to the baffles, add one quart to that for the filter. That is now your total maximum drainable quantity. That is for an engine’s first oil change. A new engine will use approx. 1/2 to 1 quart to fill all the passages during priming or “run-in” plus what clings to the internals and rests in the tappet valley.

As Cab said earlier we always accounted for 2 to 3 quarts in “suspension” during high speed engine operation. That was back in the day before all the oil mods, like bushing the lifter bores, etc.

Thanks, transman. The Dart is mostly a Saturday Night Special but I do want to take it to the track occasionally. The engine is a 451 with a Big-Ass Cam Mini-Express mushroom cam, slightly reground to restore lobe taper. So it's now 272@.050, therefore I will really need to spin it up to take full advantage... just puttin' around on the street, the windage loss wouldn't even be noticeable.

Somewhere I have a tray, just don't remember my reason for omitting it when I changed pans quite a few years ago (from 440Source which had a little interference with the K, to the current Milodon 30930 which clears everything but is still rather low to the ground). Either I figured the baffle in the 30930 would keep the oil far enough, or two gaskets were too thick for the Hughes girdle's pan rail studs.

Anyhow. Since everything's off right now, I will dig out the tray and see if I can put it on. Hughes says to seal the tray to the girdle with RTV which has minimal thickness. I guess the tray can't hurt and it may well make a measurable difference at 6000+... the one or two times I ever twist it that high

Decades ago Smokey Yunick tested this on his Spintron and reported on it.
What he found was the rotating assembly sucked the oil up into itself, creating a rope of oil around the crank & rods and aerating the oil.
The rope cost power, the aeration degraded lubricity.
So, it's obviously a good idea to keep the oil away from the rotating assy for performance purposes.
Wouldn't think it's much of a problem at low RPM street use, but for Chrysler to spend money on windage trays, that suggests merit even there.
One way to add oil capacity (if that's an issue) without filling the pan is to run a larger non-drainback filter.
In any case, of course, the pickup must always be submerged in oil.
One complication I've seen with "restoration" dipsticks & tubes is where the tube is too long.

Adding “capacity” via a larger filter only benefits oil change intervals....you have more oil to dilute the engines contaminates with between changes. Very little benefit really.

Adding sump capacity, assuming correct pickup positioning, adds usable volume,—-important if the engine is on the verge of starvation.

Most of the motors I build get new after market dipstick tubes and dipsticks, I'll fill the oil pan up with what is recommended for that pan and look a the dipstick to see where it is at before starting the motor up, if it is close, their not normally I will remember that and after changing the oil and filter the first time I may remark the back side of that stick

Seems to me when changing to a higher capacity pan and running a higher capacity. You have only gained capacity. Not really a performance upgrade.

If it held 6 quarts with a shallow pan, now you swap to a deep pan. Run the same 6 quarts. This places the oil level lower, away from the crankshaft. That is a performance upgrade.

Not sure that's true. If the crank will hold 3-4 quarts in suspension at speed then the depth of the pan really doesn't matter. That oil won't make it back to the pan once it's pumped out. Now add a crank scraper and you might be on to something.

Once you have a motor with a stock pan that looses oil pressure in high gear or when you let off you will think that having more oil capacity is good
Deep pans are a pain, especially on the street
I've dented and tore a drain plug boss loose inside a stock street hemi pan loading one of my old race cars one of my old car hauler trucks that had a slanted bed on it with long ramps, I hate Murphy

Check out the isahara-johnson windage tray mods, I kinda like their mini rear tray big block idea too, keep the oil where it is needed. I put one of their scrapers on my sons bmw when he was scca class racing and we never had to freshen the motor again. At the time his class required stock pan and no accusump. If you ever build a bigblock car for cornering get rid of the windage tray, or add a ton of holes to the side by the block, or use a crank scraper, or use an accusump, unless you like blowing motors. The stock trays seem to trap a lot of oil, and stops nothing from going up the rear on acceleration. I am thinking the trays with screen and a scraper would be best on a street car, for best control of windage, vs returning oil to the sump. I would suggest measuring your pan with tray in it to determine oil level, make sure it is below the tray.

Speaking of windage tray mods, this one looks a bit strange. The tray part is welded to the rail part, but my oil pan has wide flat rail surfaces.
This sure looks like it's going to hit the gasket. I have a Superformance pan gasket on order.

So - should I trim the gasket so it abuts but does not overlap the protruding tray section? Use a thicker bead of RTV on the flat parts to build up thickness?
Find a narrower gasket?

Edited to add: I am never using Duplicolor rattle-can engine paint again. Only about 30-40 minutes of run time on this block. Yes, the surfaces were prepped according to instructions!

That looks like the Milidon stroker windage tray that I have never been able to use in a stock oil pan like the stock Mopars trays do
I have used the stock Mopar trays in stroker motor with 4.150 stroke and Mopar size rod by add 2 to 4 oil pan gaskets between the block and the stock trays, I do make my own crank scrapers(.030 to .045 thick) also and glue them to onto the passenger side oil pan rail. I do cut one oil pan gasket up to fit on the passenger side between the scraper ends near the timing cover and then around the front and then back to the rear main seal holder at the rear of the block I have used the stock Mopar trays with 4.300 stroke cranks with BB Chevy H and I beam steel rods with no extra oil pan gaskets needed between the tray and block
IHTHs

Thanks for the tips. I decided a crank scraper would be a lot of careful cutting and fitting, and the windage tray will hopefully do what it's supposed to, keeping most of the oil away from the crank...

I don't remember where I bought it... could be Milodon or a 440 Source copy
But I did have to make a cutout so that the pickup could be installed or removed with the tray in place (interferes with the pickup's dogleg bend when turned).

Crank's a stock-stroke 3.75" (RB) in a 400 block. The tray fits fine in the Milodon 30930 pan, so I'm concerned at this point only if the gasket will seal the tray to the pan.
After a close look at a picture of the Superformance #2585, I think it will just barely clear. If not I can do some fine trimming with a sharp knife.
Will report back next week when I get home from a work trip

I know you just glued the tray on, but did you ever try a stock stroke tray? By the looks of it it would fit better. I could be wrong but with the center cut out like that and the part that is there being so far from the crank, it will not help much. A scraper, or better tray would be worth the time.

I bought that tray a long time ago, so I'm not even sure if it's for a stock crank or a stroker. Can you tell just by looking at the pic?
More likely stock, since I had no plans for a long arm then (or now).

Don't windage trays work not by scraping oil, but by preventing oil from being sucked up and and wrapped around the crank (as mentioned in this thread)?

I have been considering covering the cutout with a piece of sheet metal riveted or otherwise secured over the hole. Not sure if it's worth the effort (and introducing something into the pan that could come off and block the pickup)...

Edited to add: Looking at the 440 Source pics, it's the stroker version. They now have a "brand new" stock stroke tray that actually covers more of the pan.
http://store.440source.com/Windage-Tray-Stock-Stroke/productinfo/127-1030/
Thinking of buying that one while the pan and K are still off...