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Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: tboomer] #2713904
11/08/19 08:55 AM
11/08/19 08:55 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Online sick
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You have the perspective of a "normal" person. "Don't worry, be happy!"

Dave, myself, possibly others... we're effing OCD and this stuff keeps us up at night. realcrazy


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
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Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
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Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: BradH] #2713914
11/08/19 09:34 AM
11/08/19 09:34 AM
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flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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Yeah OCD. It's got to be right or it's not right.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2713916
11/08/19 09:47 AM
11/08/19 09:47 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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My viewpoint is somewhat in contradiction to Jesse’s.

Brads motor made close to 700hp from 452 cubes with std port Victors that didn’t recieve any extraordinary reworking, with a 4150 carb and an ootb intake.
Still had a low tech Hemi pan on it as well....... no vacuum pump, no gas ported rings.
It also had an easy-on-parts cam in it.

I have no doubt that same basic combo could be tweaked to find another 20-30hp without doing any more work to the heads.

The way I look at it....... how bad can they be?
350cfm from a true std port head with normal porting.

They don’t need to be the best head ever made, or the easiest to use, or the best bang for the buck....... to still be a decent head.



68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: fast68plymouth] #2713925
11/08/19 10:16 AM
11/08/19 10:16 AM
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Posts: 15,213
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Online sick
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
My tendency to be flip & sarcastic doesn't necessarily convey everything accurately. My Victors may not have been "bolt on and go", but the end results do speak for themselves.

If I thought they were such a P O S I wouldn't have bought another pair at a good price that are up at Dwayne's to have some basic prep work done to them before I decide what's next.

Some things don't have to be as complicated as people (especially like myself) can make it. It's very much self-inflicted, and I readily acknowledge this.

Last edited by BradH; 11/08/19 10:20 AM.

An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: fast68plymouth] #2713932
11/08/19 10:28 AM
11/08/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,213
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Online sick
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
...

Still had a low tech Hemi pan on it as well....... no vacuum pump, no gas ported rings.

...

And .003"+ excessive piston clearance on a .060" oversize block that couldn't be re-honed w/ a torque plate cuz the bores distorted too much to clean up properly. It just got touched up w/o the torque plate, and I used MLS gaskets to try and reduce some of the distortion that a composition gasket would allow.

If nothing else, the bottom end is "well seasoned".


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: BradH] #2713935
11/08/19 10:31 AM
11/08/19 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,447
The frozen wasteland of Iowa
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tboomer Offline

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I remember when I bought mine.Summit had a good deal going on them. I also considered Indy SRs but when I asked Russ at Indy a question,he treated me like crap. I swore that I would never buy from Indy. I got the 440-3X from a Moparts member at a good price.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: tboomer] #2714004
11/08/19 01:52 PM
11/08/19 01:52 PM
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Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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You know, I like the Indy stuff, the parts seem to make good power, but I was treated the same way by Russ, both on the phone and in person. I do not have a single Indy part on my engine, and it has ran a best of 9.65 @ 140, one of Russ's many remarks was that basically I was too dumb to build an engine that would go in the 9's just buy a complete one from Indy. I explained to Russ or tried to, that building the car to me was more fun than racing it. And I know, my engine could be a little faster with Indy stuff, but who cares, its all index's or dial-in's anyway.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: jwb123] #2714155
11/09/19 07:33 AM
11/09/19 07:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,344
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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The steps i performed to get my victors ready:

Used +.050 locks and .050 keepers to achieve a 2" installed height.
Sourced correct (longer) studs for rocker shafts
Deburred castings
Corrected rocker geometry by moving shaft .090 up and .090 away from the valves
Grind for pushrod clearance


I don't see anything different going on with the set of -1s that we have either.

With a standard +.100 BBC valve the installed height is not anywhere close to 2". In fact I will most likely use the same Ti locks/retainers and Isky (PSI) RAD springs that we have on the victors. As far as geometry if i were installing longer valves (+.200 BBC valve i.e.) to gain installed height the jesel rocker bar would have to (gasp) move up and back to create an acceptable sweep pattern. Sounds like these two heads have parity if you are trying to run a common 2" valve spring. And yes it seems like heads that have large ish ports will want a +.700 lift roller cam to make power per thier design. I crigne when I see people using flat tappet stuff at that level. When the list of compromises gets long it see,s like the hp and rpm fall off. It all depends on your desired service intervals and intended use.


beats walking!
Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2714937
11/11/19 07:37 PM
11/11/19 07:37 PM
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flint michigan
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I finally popped the chain cover off and checked the cam timing. Its installed at 105*. It was 105.5* when I built the engine. So it lost 1/2* in roughly 600miles and many hrs of run time. Those pro gear sets are really nice. So there you have it, the loss of 100hp points back at the heads/compression ratio and maybe the Indy intake. I tried to get the heads down to Detroit today, but turned around in the snow storm. Will get them down there for inspection this Friday provided there is not another snow storm.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: Jeremiah] #2714947
11/11/19 07:49 PM
11/11/19 07:49 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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I don't have any run time experience with the Victor head but I was able to push the Indy EZ head out past 900 hp using fairly conventional parts. Stock valves and valve locations but the heads were ported and then touched up by some of the best in the business. The trick was the Jesel rocker arms which allowed me to run up to 0.880 lift. I used a cam with 0.481 lobe lift and either 1.70 or 1.85 rocker arms depending on what I was trying to do. I'm not sure if the same trick would work on the Victor head but if I was trying to make big power it is probably something I'd try. There is a limit to the shaft rocker arm system although the limit is probably higher than where this engine is at the moment. I think the limit is somewhere around 800 hp but I'm sure people have pushed the stock type shaft system past that. Even with the Jesel setup it does take some time to figure out how to get close to 0.900 lift. There are only a handful of springs made that will work and they require specific cups, retainers and locks. I had a whole drawer full of that stuff that I would mix and match. I eventually ended up using a spreadsheet just to keep track of the different combinations. I think I was close to a 2.100 installed height using the stock valves that came in my EZ heads from Indy.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: AndyF] #2714968
11/11/19 08:30 PM
11/11/19 08:30 PM
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The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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Originally Posted by AndyF
I don't have any run time experience with the Victor head but I was able to push the Indy EZ head out past 900 hp using fairly conventional parts. Stock valves and valve locations but the heads were ported and then touched up by some of the best in the business. The trick was the Jesel rocker arms which allowed me to run up to 0.880 lift. I used a cam with 0.481 lobe lift and either 1.70 or 1.85 rocker arms depending on what I was trying to do. I'm not sure if the same trick would work on the Victor head but if I was trying to make big power it is probably something I'd try.It does work on these There is a limit to the shaft rocker arm system although the limit is probably higher than where this engine is at the moment. I think the limit is somewhere around 800 hp but I'm sure people have pushed the stock type shaft system past that. Even with the Jesel setup it does take some time to figure out how to get close to 0.900 lift. There are only a handful of springs made that will work and they require specific cups, retainers and locks. I had a whole drawer full of that stuff that I would mix and match. I eventually ended up using a spreadsheet just to keep track of the different combinations. I think I was close to a 2.100 installed height using the stock valves that came in my EZ heads from Indy.


This is good info^^^^^^^

FWIW I made 780HP @ 466 cubes with .750" and T&D's single shaft system with 1.6/1.6 rockers. So I guess I would say the same as you. Had I been smarter I would have milled the rocker stands off and machined.....etc...... The single shaft system is what hampers all single shaft systems and had I ditched that could have made my life much easier. J.Rob


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Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: RAMM] #2715026
11/12/19 07:55 AM
11/12/19 07:55 AM
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flint michigan
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Yeah, I see the possibilities. Way more work and money than I want to invest in these heads. This combo is just a powerhouse that I have fun with on the street hitting T&T now and then. My goal while building this 511 was 700hp. Thought it would be close, but I choose the wrong cylinderhead. Had I known I would have bought the 440-1 or atleast a EZ head. Just looking for 700-750hp as a goal for now. I'm willing to invest $1000-$1500 into these, but any more and they go up for sale. Thanks again for the info guys. Its a constant learning curve.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2715050
11/12/19 09:27 AM
11/12/19 09:27 AM
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Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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I have a 512, procomp victor copy heads, around 12 to 1 comp, 1.6 rockers, .740 lift cam, Manton pushrods, hand ported in my garage, homemade intake with two AFB's for NSS, 3200 lb car ran best of 9.65 @ 140mph, dyno said 725HP nothing exotic, I think that is about the goal you set in your post. The engine ran for 10 years with one freshing, bearings and rings. Last summer it broke a rod, going back together as a 540. will see how it does in that version soon. My flow numbers on the heads at max wedge port size were close to what was posted in this thread. I bought the cheap procomps, because I did not want to screw up an expensive set porting them myself, I am pretty happy with the results per dollar spent, and reliability. I would guess a good single plane intake with a dominator would make it at least a tenth faster, maybe more.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: jwb123] #2715062
11/12/19 09:46 AM
11/12/19 09:46 AM
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flint michigan
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It's nice to see combos like that with these heads going fast. Not a junk head imo, they just need alot of work to get in 800hp or more range from what I have been told. Once again a combo with high compression to get good numbers with this head. Mine will be at least 12.5:1 once the heads are done. Should run much better numbers this time around.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2715117
11/12/19 11:59 AM
11/12/19 11:59 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Online sick
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
You've probably said this and I don't remember... going to change the cam along with the CR bump?


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: BradH] #2715120
11/12/19 12:12 PM
11/12/19 12:12 PM
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flint michigan
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No, as of right now. I think 270@50 is plenty of cam for want I'm doing. I'm get the heads worked on then the intake, then maybe a solid roller. I'm thinking the 270@50 cam may really like the added compression.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2715146
11/12/19 01:22 PM
11/12/19 01:22 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Online sick
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
I'm sure the current cam will be happier w/ more CR than less... grin

I bumped your Indy 400-3 intake thread, too, FWIW.


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2715427
11/13/19 12:19 PM
11/13/19 12:19 PM
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State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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At those cubes and 12.5.1 comp, I'd definitely put a bigger solid roller in there after you test what you have unless it get's yer goat and makes ya happy..........


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Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: Thumperdart] #2715634
11/14/19 08:26 AM
11/14/19 08:26 AM
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flint michigan
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Eventually it will get the bigger roller cam. I just want to see how far I can go with a flat tappet first.

Re: A few question about the E MW victor head [Re: mopar dave] #2715714
11/14/19 12:28 PM
11/14/19 12:28 PM
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flint michigan
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I just got off the phone with Keith at Wilson's and just as I suspected from the start, I need more velocity. He asked if it was laying down in 3rd gear. Yep, he says with the big ports, the fuel is falling out of suspension and never being used, just going out the pipe . He wants heads and intake to inspect. He says everything can be adjusted in the intake and most dont know this. It will take lengthening the port and making smaller with some welding, $1675. My thinking, a smaller intake cost way less, but I dont think there is another brand 4500 lo deck available. In the end he said compression would be my friend in this situation. Low compression such as mine is allowing fuel to fall out with the big ports in this combo. Looks like I'm on the right track.

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