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School me on small block timing covers please #2709231
10/22/19 02:57 PM
10/22/19 02:57 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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So I realized on the Formula S I'm finishing that I may have the wrong timing cover on it. It's a 340 car with the original engine and I assumed the original cover when we got it. The clue I might have an issue is when I went to set the timing for start up and I realized the balancer didn't match the timing mark. I believe I may have a 67 cover and or balancer on the car, the car did run when we got it with no abnormal vibration. I guess the balancer hub could have slipped but if the mark was on the driver's side it would not be visible due to the power steering pump. Currently the mark is landing under the alternator in full view but no tab to measure it against. The easy fix is to just use a 67 timing tab but I'd like it to be correct and more importantly I want to know the difference for future reference. It is a 10/15/67 SPD and I don't know the original engine assembly date.

Thanks in advance, Kevin


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709234
10/22/19 03:16 PM
10/22/19 03:16 PM
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Alaskan_TA Offline
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Timing tab on '69 models & older is a bolt on part, 1970 model year up it is cast into the housing like the one on your AAR.

Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: Alaskan_TA] #2709238
10/22/19 03:31 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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Thanks Barry,

I have found a timing cover with a molding in tab like on the 70 and up but on the passenger side. I have a compete 67 273 sitting in my shop that has a passenger side bolt in. I was told the bolt on was 67 and down but the molded passenger side was 68-9 and then of course the driver's side molded in is like my AAR and my other 71 and 73 340s are for 70 and up.

I was also curious if the 273-360 all used the same timing cover, for some reason I was thinking the 340 and 360 was different.



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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709241
10/22/19 03:46 PM
10/22/19 03:46 PM
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Iowa
burdar Offline
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I think 67 uses the bolt on timing tab. The 68 and 69 covers have the cast-in markings but on the passengers side. My 68 Dart has the timing marks on the passengers side. In 1970 the timing marks moved to the drives side. They also changed to an aluminum water pump in 1970. Before that, the water pump was cast iron and had the lower hose on the drivers side.(thus the reason why the timing marks were on the opposite side)

Timing covers for small blocks will fit 273/318/340/360. 340 and 360 take different engine mounts...maybe that's where the confusion is?

Last edited by burdar; 10/22/19 03:52 PM.
Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: burdar] #2709263
10/22/19 05:34 PM
10/22/19 05:34 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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What Burdar said. On a side note install thedampener/gasket & keep the bolts fairly loose then draw on the dampener halfway (to center the tcover) then tighten the bolts & first the pump gasket fits better one way, flip it over back & forth dry on the tcover & you will see which way is better. Some bolts are wet so put something on em. check the tchain while you are in there (the 3 keyway sprocket is good) & people have complained about Cloyes quality. check that the bolt head by the fuel pump does not interfere with the water pump inlet nipple tho you ain't changing anything there so you should be good. EDIT meant to say "tcover/gasket" in the first sentence

Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/22/19 06:49 PM.

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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: RapidRobert] #2709276
10/22/19 05:58 PM
10/22/19 05:58 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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Great info.

Any thoughts on early 68s wearing a 67 cover from the beginning? I realize a 10/15 isn't necessarily an early build and it could have been changed along the way (I know the cam was changed and then changed back at some point). I didn't find a picture of the pictures before we purchased it and it has the 67 cover on it.

Thanks for all the input folks.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: burdar] #2709278
10/22/19 06:02 PM
10/22/19 06:02 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by burdar


Timing covers for small blocks will fit 273/318/340/360. 340 and 360 take different engine mounts...maybe that's where the confusion is?


And isn't the oil pan different on a 340/360 as well.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709283
10/22/19 06:22 PM
10/22/19 06:22 PM
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nowhere
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Sniper Online content
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only 360

Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: Sniper] #2709286
10/22/19 06:30 PM
10/22/19 06:30 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sniper
only 360


What's different? Does it use a different rear main design? I'm assuming if the t-cover is the same then the front of the pan is the same.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709293
10/22/19 06:44 PM
10/22/19 06:44 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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the rear "half moon" on the 360 pan is different, (to match the curve on the #5 main cap), smaller iirc. & on the front seal mockup the seal into the pan half moon cutout & you dont want the seal ends way up higher than flush with the oil pan rail & some seals vary alot, some need the end flats trimmed a bit, though you do need some "crush" & some aftermarket pans need the 2 mini holes for the seal nubs to be enlarged or elongated for the seal to have a dead on fit, leaks are a pain but disregard if you have the stock pan but I just run into this with an aftermarket pan. sometimes the pan side gaskets need trimmed where they meet the rear main seal ends, Mockup & see what you see. On a SB, dry mockup/fitment is your friend. EDIT I missed that you ain't changing the pan

Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/22/19 06:50 PM.

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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: RapidRobert] #2709300
10/22/19 07:09 PM
10/22/19 07:09 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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Still great info and I really don't plan to change anything at this point since it is built and in the car. I scrounge up a 67 timing tab so I can set the timing and call it good. At this point I'm just trying to confirm things I've heard or thought I knew. Most of the small block cars I have done were complete so I never had to learn what fit what, original parts always seem to be correct up, I do however have a few piece together builds coming in the future that this info will be good to know.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709390
10/23/19 06:16 AM
10/23/19 06:16 AM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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So a piece of info came to me this morning that I would like to run by everyone. A knowledgeable person from another site sent back door info that the 69 style cover with the molded in tab was actually a late 68 and 69 issue and that many/most 68s had the 67 style cover and tab. They did say that the 69 style cover showed up on later build 68 year model engines. Can anyone verify that? Does anyone have a 68 with the original timing cover that can support or debunk this information?

Does the 273/318 covers have the same molded in tab in 68-69? If they do then it would suggest that they would not be that uncommon.

Thanks for the all the info, I'm just trying to figure this out best I can.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709411
10/23/19 08:21 AM
10/23/19 08:21 AM
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Iowa
burdar Offline
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I'd have to check the fender tag on my 68 to be sure but I think it was built in February. It has the cast-in marks. I have no reason to believe the timing cover was replaced.

Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: burdar] #2709414
10/23/19 08:31 AM
10/23/19 08:31 AM
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Ontario, Canada
mccannix Offline
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Not that parts books are the end all to go by but the metal timing tab, part number 2658451 is shown in the 68 parts for 273,318,340 and is obviously in 67 book as well as.
As stated was likely used early part of the 68 year model.

timeplate2 (1).jpgtimeplate2 (2).jpg
Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mccannix] #2709421
10/23/19 08:46 AM
10/23/19 08:46 AM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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Excellent input, thanks folks.

Now to the other question, did the 273s and 318s in 68-69 use the same molded cover as the 340? I have 2 340 cars that are missing the original engine and would like them to be as correct as possible.

Thanks again and again.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709467
10/23/19 10:30 AM
10/23/19 10:30 AM
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I know of a reasonably late (as far as we could determine without a fender tag April or May 1968) build '68 GTS convertible (number's matching) with the cast in timing marks. I helped pull the drive train and it appeared that may have been the first time. My 8/28/67 SPD GTS convertible that did NOT have the original engine when we bought it in 1983 had the early timing cover with the steel bolt on tab.

Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2709475
10/23/19 10:48 AM
10/23/19 10:48 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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I see those bolt on tabs regularly for sale over on FABO if you need one.


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: RapidRobert] #2709528
10/23/19 01:00 PM
10/23/19 01:00 PM
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mopar346 Offline OP
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I have a tab but thanks


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: mopar346] #2709738
10/24/19 08:39 AM
10/24/19 08:39 AM
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Western Md.
skicker Offline
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One thing to be careful of is when looking for a cover with no timing marks and then planning on using a timing tab is to not get one for a 318 poly motor.

The poly has an extra bolt in it that does not exist in any the the 273-318-340 blocks.

We've all seen that stupid section of gasket sticking out of the timing cover a little more than halfway up the drivers side. That hole is for a poly only cover... twocents


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Re: School me on small block timing covers please [Re: skicker] #2711199
10/30/19 10:47 AM
10/30/19 10:47 AM
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Connecticut
FurryStump Offline
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I have two 68’s fastbacks one 340 s with a molded in passenger side cover and a 318 with the bolted on scale passenger side.

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