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Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 64nss330] #2708954
10/21/19 06:43 PM
10/21/19 06:43 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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I have NEVER heard a guy with a 4 link say "wow I wish I had went with ladder cars" just sayin. Ladder bars can get the job done with ZERO issues for what you want. BUT if you are doing it 4 link is a much more desirable way to go, from terms of resale and tunability. Just my .02


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: Al_Alguire] #2708978
10/21/19 07:24 PM
10/21/19 07:24 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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280 is a lot of duration for that size motor in a heavy car. Take some weight off first.
Doug

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 64nss330] #2708999
10/21/19 08:12 PM
10/21/19 08:12 PM
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Fredericksburg Va
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plycuda Offline
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what about monoleaf and caltracs. that would drop about 40 pounds. what tires you run.

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 64nss330] #2709003
10/21/19 08:21 PM
10/21/19 08:21 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Originally Posted by 64nss330
Bruce Lang is running a 470 in his 68 NSS barracuda with the TF270s and a Modman with 1 1/2 spacer best of 9.48 @ 3200 lbs.
I just can't seem to get my combination to work that well.
Primarily was wondering if I needed to go with more duration on my cam, like 280


What cam is in the Barracuda ?

9.50 should be in the 140mph neighborhood.
At 3200lbs....... I’d be thinking it would dyno at 750-770-ish.

124mph @ 3800 should only take about 610-620 on the dyno.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2709011
10/21/19 08:40 PM
10/21/19 08:40 PM
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Portage,michigan
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by 64nss330
Bruce Lang is running a 470 in his 68 NSS barracuda with the TF270s and a Modman with 1 1/2 spacer best of 9.48 @ 3200 lbs.
I just can't seem to get my combination to work that well.
Primarily was wondering if I needed to go with more duration on my cam, like 280


What cam is in the Barracuda ?

9.50 should be in the 140mph neighborhood.
At 3200lbs....... I’d be thinking it would dyno at 750-770-ish.

124mph @ 3800 should only take about 610-620 on the dyno.


Joe went 140 @3220 in my old car on super stock springs. 9.66
Motor made 708 on Best Machine dyno
775 horsepower should run WAY better than 140 in a 3200 pound car.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: plycuda] #2709044
10/21/19 10:29 PM
10/21/19 10:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Indiana
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64nss330 Offline OP
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MT 29.5x 10.5W

Originally Posted by plycuda
whwhatat about monoleaf and caltracs. that would drop about 40 pounds. what tires you run.

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2709047
10/21/19 10:35 PM
10/21/19 10:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
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Indiana
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64nss330 Offline OP
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The card sent with it was the same as my cam .650/.651 by 264/268 @
050.
But he was told it has diffent ramp angles, so we're not sure.

Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by 64nss330
Bruce Lang is running a 470 in his 68 NSS barracuda with the TF270s and a Modman with 1
1/2 spacer best of 9.48 @ 3200 lbs.
I just can't seem to get my combination to work that well.
Primarily was wondering if I needed to go with more duration on my cam, like 280


What cam is in the Barracuda ?

9.50 should be in the 140mph neighborhood.
At 3200lbs....... I’d be thinking it would dyno at 750-770-ish.

124mph @ 3800 should only take about 610-620 on the dyno.

Last edited by 64nss330; 10/22/19 09:07 AM. Reason: Correct mistake
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 64nss330] #2709068
10/22/19 02:55 AM
10/22/19 02:55 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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I have used a smaller Comp Cams solid roller cam than yours in my old pump gas Duster that weighed right at 3450 Lbs. with me in it, that car ran a best of 9.993 at 134.6 MPH through the 3.0 inch full exhaust system to the rear bumpers on Oregon pump swill. It would run mid 1.40 in the 60 ft. with a older T/A SS 8.0 inch race hemi converter in the car.
It was a ladder bar car with coil overs rear suspension, 15.0 inch extended Strange double adjustable rear shocks with a set of Koni SPA front shocks on 315x60x15 M/T Et Street Radials back in the late 2000s and early 2010/2011 up
That cam had 260@.050 with .420 lobe lift on the intakes and 266@.050 with .409 lobe lift ground on a 108 LSA installed 1 to 2 degrees advanced on the intake lobes with a set of Harland Sharp 1.65 ratio rockers that netted right at.700 lift at the retainers with light weight checking springs with the lash set .006 tighter for the aluminum heads at room temps.
That motor was a 400 block bored to 4.375 with a 4.300 stroke Ohio Crankshaft custom ground stroker forged steel crank for street use, not a lightweight all out race only crankshaft tsk That car and motor made me very happy, it exceeded my wildest wishes boogie
You have room for plenty of improvements on your deal, now comes the hard part and where to start work I would work on the chassis before trying to make more HP and torque work twocents
My reasoning is it not hooking well now with the HP you have so adding more won't help it hook, it should do just the opposite work

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/22/19 02:56 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: Cab_Burge] #2709110
10/22/19 09:17 AM
10/22/19 09:17 AM
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Indiana
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64nss330 Offline OP
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I agree that's where I'm going to start. Get a solid suspension in, good adjustable shocks in the rear and see what she does come spring.

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I have used a smaller Comp Cams solid roller cam than yours in my old pump gas Duster that weighed right at 3450 Lbs. with me in it, that car ran a best of 9.993 at 134.6 MPH through the 3.0 inch full exhaust system to the rear bumpers on Oregon pump swill. It would run mid 1.40 in the 60 ft. with a older T/A SS 8.0 inch race hemi converter in the car.
It was a ladder bar car with coil overs rear suspension, 15.0 inch extended Strange double adjustable rear shocks with a set of Koni SPA front shocks on 315x60x15 M/T Et Street Radials back in the late 2000s and early 2010/2011 up
That cam had 260@.050 with .420 lobe lift on the intakes and 266@.050 with .409 lobe lift ground on a 108 LSA installed 1 to 2 degrees advanced on the intake lobes with a set of Harland Sharp 1.65 ratio rockers that netted right at.700 lift at the retainers with light weight checking springs with the lash set .006 tighter for the aluminum heads at room temps.
That motor was a 400 block bored to 4.375 with a 4.300 stroke Ohio Crankshaft custom ground stroker forged steel crank for street use, not a lightweight all out race only crankshaft tsk That car and motor made me very happy, it exceeded my wildest wishes boogie
You have room for plenty of improvements on your deal, now comes the hard part and where to start work I would work on the chassis before trying to make more HP and torque work twocents
My reasoning is it not hooking well now with the HP you have so adding more won't help it hook, it should do just the opposite work

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 64nss330] #2709112
10/22/19 09:21 AM
10/22/19 09:21 AM
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Indiana
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64nss330 Offline OP
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Thanks for all the advice. Please keep it coming I'm a sponge on this stuff. I'm not planning on stopping at 9.99 so any advice will be used and passed on down the road.

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: B3422W5] #2709122
10/22/19 10:02 AM
10/22/19 10:02 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted by B3422W5
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by 64nss330
Bruce Lang is running a 470 in his 68 NSS barracuda with the TF270s and a Modman with 1 1/2 spacer best of 9.48 @ 3200 lbs.
I just can't seem to get my combination to work that well.
Primarily was wondering if I needed to go with more duration on my cam, like 280


What cam is in the Barracuda ?

9.50 should be in the 140mph neighborhood.
At 3200lbs....... I’d be thinking it would dyno at 750-770-ish.

124mph @ 3800 should only take about 610-620 on the dyno.


Joe went 140 @3220 in my old car on super stock springs. 9.66
Motor made 708 on Best Machine dyno
775 horsepower should run WAY better than 140 in a 3200 pound car.


From what I’ve seen, the “typical” bracket car usually shows around a 10% lower HP number than the STP power from the dyno.
140@3220 shows 680hp...... which is only 4% off the 708hp dyno number.
Obviously, some cars are better than others(even in the middle of summer my friends stocker shows it makes more HP than it actually does).

140@3200 shows 675hp.

So, 750hp on the dyno.....-10%.....675hp uncorrected as the car is sitting on the starting line.

I usually shoot for 10% over what would theoretically be needed for a given MPH/weight.
If the car ends up being better than a 10% package and goes quicker.......let’s just say....... I haven’t heard any complaints when that happens.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2709200
10/22/19 01:49 PM
10/22/19 01:49 PM
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Georgia
66coronet Offline
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In no way is this derogatory. I think something is missing in the current combo. You should be quicker now. I do not believe it is in the intake or carburetors. I am running the same combo.

Our NSS wagon has been 10.80s ( i do not remember the exact et )
It is a 30 over 440 with 10 to 1 comp, SR heads, indy dual plane intake, single edelbrock 750, 4.56 gears in a dana, caltracs, also a good converter, at 3775lbs

My old NSS combo went 9.80
It was a 493 or 496 ( i dont remember ) with SR heads, 12 to 1 comp, modman, a pair of edelbrock 750s, an older indy/comp flat tappet cam in the range of 607/614, with 4.10 gears in a dana, after several tries we found a very good ATI converter combo which is where a most of the ET came from. This is in a ladderbar car at 3600lbs

My this year NSS combo has been 9.49. I do not turn this motor hard. I have no doubt there is more in it.
It is an aluminum block 540 with -1 heads, also 12.1 comp, modman with Your upgrades, has had edelbrock 750s and 800s on it, comp 682/682 roller with 284/288, with 4.10 gears and so on. The car is lighter with the aluminum block.

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 66coronet] #2709218
10/22/19 03:06 PM
10/22/19 03:06 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I’m a big proponent of dyno testing what you have before making any changes.

Including the fenderwell headers.

If the STP dyno numbers are close to within 10% of what the calculators show for your weight and speed....... then it’s unlikely you’ll find a bunch of improvement without finding more HP.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2709227
10/22/19 03:35 PM
10/22/19 03:35 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
... it’s unlikely you’ll find a bunch of improvement without finding more HP.

The "Jaws" analogy...

YGNABB.jpg
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2709271
10/22/19 06:51 PM
10/22/19 06:51 PM
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Portage,michigan
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by B3422W5
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by 64nss330
Bruce Lang is running a 470 in his 68 NSS barracuda with the TF270s and a Modman with 1 1/2 spacer best of 9.48 @ 3200 lbs.
I just can't seem to get my combination to work that well.
Primarily was wondering if I needed to go with more duration on my cam, like 280


What cam is in the Barracuda ?

9.50 should be in the 140mph neighborhood.
At 3200lbs....... I’d be thinking it would dyno at 750-770-ish.

124mph @ 3800 should only take about 610-620 on the dyno.


Joe went 140 @3220 in my old car on super stock springs. 9.66
Motor made 708 on Best Machine dyno
775 horsepower should run WAY better than 140 in a 3200 pound car.


From what I’ve seen, the “typical” bracket car usually shows around a 10% lower HP number than the STP power from the dyno.
140@3220 shows 680hp...... which is only 4% off the 708hp dyno number.
Obviously, some cars are better than others(even in the middle of summer my friends stocker shows it makes more HP than it actually does).

140@3200 shows 675hp.

So, 750hp on the dyno.....-10%.....675hp uncorrected as the car is sitting on the starting line.

I usually shoot for 10% over what would theoretically be needed for a given MPH/weight.
If the car ends up being better than a 10% package and goes quicker.......let’s just say....... I haven’t heard any complaints when that happens.


That car was on super stock springs, cheap 3 way CE shocks. Nothing trick for sure. Maybe its just more the fact the dyno was more real world than others


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 66coronet] #2709312
10/22/19 08:40 PM
10/22/19 08:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 19
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64nss330 Offline OP
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So did my upgrades gain you anything significant on that 540?

Originally Posted by 66coronet
In no way is this derogatory. I think something is missing in the current combo. You should be quicker now. I do not believe it is in the intake or carburetors. I am running the same combo.

Our NSS wagon has been 10.80s ( i do not remember the exact et )
It is a 30 over 440 with 10 to 1 comp, SR heads, indy dual plane intake, single edelbrock 750, 4.56 gears in a dana, caltracs, also a good converter, at 3775lbs

My old NSS combo went 9.80
It was a 493 or 496 ( i dont remember ) with SR heads, 12 to 1 comp, modman, a pair of edelbrock 750s, an older indy/comp flat tappet cam in the range of 607/614, with 4.10 gears in a dana, after several tries we found a very good ATI converter combo which is where a most of the ET came from. This is in a ladderbar car at 3600lbs

My this year NSS combo has been 9.49. I do not turn this motor hard. I have no doubt there is more in it.
It is an aluminum block 540 with -1 heads, also 12.1 comp, modman with Your upgrades, has had edelbrock 750s and 800s on it, comp 682/682 roller with 284/288, with 4.10 gears and so on. The car is lighter with the aluminum block.


Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 64nss330] #2709397
10/23/19 08:08 AM
10/23/19 08:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 826
Georgia
66coronet Offline
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I have been at a race every time its been out since the changes. I have been more focused on slowing it down to an index. It is quicker. I just dont know how much yet.
I will get to a test n tune or 2 in the next month and let you know.

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: 66coronet] #2709425
10/23/19 09:55 AM
10/23/19 09:55 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Quote
That car was on super stock springs, cheap 3 way CE shocks. Nothing trick for sure. Maybe its just more the fact the dyno was more real world than others


It doesn’t have to be anything trick to be a well matched, well sorted combo.
My friends Stocker uses Cal-Tracs and split-monos........ and in anything but very poor weather conditions shows the motor to make more power than it actually makes.......... and in good air...... way more(like 40-50hp more).

That’s tested on the same dyno where the typical result is usually a car that is showing close to a 10% loss.

Don, what does the Dart weigh on the line and what’s the best MPH?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2709456
10/23/19 11:08 AM
10/23/19 11:08 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth

That’s tested on the same dyno where the typical result is usually a car that is showing close to a 10% loss.

FWIW, the last "iteration" of my Challenger only showed about a 4% loss between that dyno and "net" HP based upon weight & MPH (~610 HP on dyno for the in-car config; 126.5 MPH at 3755 #s on track w/ full exhaust, etc.).

Re: Quest for 9s.Cam choice or Chassi setup. [Re: BradH] #2709462
10/23/19 11:16 AM
10/23/19 11:16 AM
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Which is why I feel a dyno test of the OP’s motor as it is would be worthwhile.

If you look at the build specs, it’s hard to imagine it wouldn’t make at least 625-640hp....... yet shows nowhere near that by the speed/weight.

The moroso chart shows it as making about 558hp.
So, either the motor is an underachiever........ or the car isn’t making as good use of the power as it could.
At 625hp STP dyno power it would be an 11% combo.
At 640hp it’s a 13% combo.

For the OP’s package to be a 4% combo....... the motor would only be making 582 STP HP on the engine dyno....... which seems unlikely.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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