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Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #2708052
10/18/19 12:46 PM
10/18/19 12:46 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Al_Alguire  Offline
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ANYTHING you can do to straighten the pushrods out will be beneficial in the long run. FWIW I run offset lifters in my Predator with what most here would consider and insane amount of open pressure and ZERO issues. We went to extremes to make the pushrods as straight as possible and the 9/16"
double taper pushrods required a good deal of clearancing in the block. I have done the same with my -1 engines over the years as well. One thing many seem to miss is pushrod length as well, RARELY can you use the same size pushrod on each valve with offset rockers or lifters.

[Linked Image]



"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2708245
10/19/19 04:27 AM
10/19/19 04:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,096
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Thank you for the insight Al. That gives me faith we qre on the right track.



Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #2708246
10/19/19 04:42 AM
10/19/19 04:42 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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A little run down on what the parameters are:

Max lift : .800I/.785E

Target installed ht: 2.050" (Isky 9998-RAD)

Current valve length: 5.344I/TBD

So far with the intake valves that came in the head I am getting about 2.02 " IH on the intake with no spring cup installed and a +.050 lock. I think a 5.444" OAL might work f i used a standard height lock and Isky .045" spring seat. Only issue thus far is nobody makes a 2.25" diameter valve, only a 2.30. I might call Manley and see if they can do us up a set of Super Alloy ex. and Severe Duty Intakes. I am also consodering coated Ti is I could find a deal lol.

So many details to be ironed out...



Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #2708525
10/20/19 12:32 PM
10/20/19 12:32 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Titanium will allow you to get whatever you NEED, but comes at a price for sure. Could not tell you the last time I did a "race" motor without titanium intake at the very least. FWIW I am screwing together a 600-13 headed deal for our dragster right now and am using an offset lifter of course.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2708603
10/20/19 04:49 PM
10/20/19 04:49 PM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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I checked the scrub pattern and it looks like the +.100 BBC intakes are looking good. I think it is worth buying a new set of valves from Victory. DLC coating and hardened tip are a must as i have no room for a lash cap.

Also want to avoid BeCu seats.

How does the coating last? Is it worth going Ti for the 5.369x.81 exhaust valves?

The other thing is installed height..way too short even with my favorite +.050 retainer +.050 lock combo. Im hoping we can shave .055 off of the spring seats to make room for the 2.05"x1.600" spring and a .045" spring cup.

Those are steel valve spec pressures so maybe Ti will allow for a less aggressive spring?

20191019_034144.jpg20191019_034127.jpg20191018_194538.jpg


Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #2708608
10/20/19 05:05 PM
10/20/19 05:05 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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What am I missing with that height mic reading?
Looks like 2.200+

No experience with the coated valves, but I can tell you that big springs/Ti valves/50*/Indy seats didn’t get along well at all.
Someone sent me a set of 572-13’s that didn’t have all that many runs on them to freshen....... and the valve faces had worn/eroded very badly.
Several had absolutely no margin left at all and were like razor blades.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2708729
10/21/19 12:22 AM
10/21/19 12:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Only you would catch that! It measures correctly by the radial hash marks but the vertical is a progressivley worse as you get past 2". Got it from Isky a while back. Do you have a favorite brand of spring height mic? It definitely 2.02ish.

The guys that were running these heads before me omitted and spring cups or locators due to only having 1.88" IH on a 1.625" spring. The heads aee very old so i imagine they have been through many hands.



Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #2708742
10/21/19 06:21 AM
10/21/19 06:21 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Okay so after some research I am looking at the following:

Trick Ti Intakes coated, 5.344x2.25x.342
Moldstar seat
Inconel Exhausts 5.369x1.81x.342
Seat TBD

I am also thinking i can possibly use a little less valve spring on the intake and match the exhaust psi to those? To be honest I always wondered why the spring pressures were identical intake to exhaust considering that the valves are dissimilar in weight.

If i could get away with a 2.000 IH that would put me in Isky 9999-RAD land which is what ee used in the other 511.



Re: Do you use offset lifters with you 440 -1 heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #2711058
10/29/19 11:10 PM
10/29/19 11:10 PM
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Posts: 9,096
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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I had a very interesting conversation with an old acquaintance from Wegner Automotive Research about my valve train and interest in Ti valves. They build a lot of different engines from pullers to high speed oval stuff to SCCA T/A. He is a proponent of keeping the valve spring as small and light as possible to help endurance/reliability vs. the old school (and my adopted) way of bigger is better. Some interweb reading indicates that folks like Reher-Morrison agree with this approach.

So far the sum of this research points me towards CrN coated Ti valves in them and use a small OD spring/retainer to lighten things up as much as possible. I know several Manley dealers so that is who will likey supply the valves/locks/retainers/keepers/springs. It's funny to look at a high zoot drag race spring for our Dinosaur motors and then look what they offer for modern platforms (LS, Gen3. etc). I see a trend with much shorter installed height, a non-interference fit between inner/outer springs, steeper ramp angles on the springs and they are a whole hell of a lot lighter of course.

Anyone tried sing little springs like this yet? How'd it fare?

And before we get overboard with the cost of things a) my wife is all for Ti valves so can it lol and b) all those years of not having cable or not smoking cigarettes pay off : D

Dwayne I asked about the poor seat material and possibility of tuliped valves as a result of this. No feedback at this time. DO you have any more thoughts on what might have caused that issue?



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