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Re: TF270 accessories [Re: fast68plymouth] #2705833
10/11/19 09:52 AM
10/11/19 09:52 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Online sick
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
I have to switch from blah + twocents mode to popcorn mode for my own sanity.

Got enough problem sticking to my own plan, much less helping others figure sh!t out. whistling


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: BradH] #2705836
10/11/19 10:03 AM
10/11/19 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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Thanks for the link. Rob from RAMM says the Victors need some help to make them flow, just as I have been saying and he suggested a smaller collector as well. Looks like I should be using 3" pipe instead of the 3.5" I have been using to help increase the flow thru the head and into the cylinders. Dwayne says the bowls are too small as well and need attention. Your on the same page as well with the low velocity and has been my point with the compression bump to help speed up the port flow. I have done a bunch of research on many of the other Mopar sites and anyone running a combo similar to mine with these Victors has 12.5:1 or more compression to run low 10's or 9's or up around the 700+HP numbers. Its just seems compression makes them work. Its clear to me these heads need help and i'm sure my whole package as a whole could use some tweaks as well, but I believe the heads need the most attention. I was looking at the TF270 because it flows the same as my head with a much smaller port. If I had the cash I would drop it on the 270's right now and be done with this patch work.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2705840
10/11/19 10:09 AM
10/11/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,736
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
... I called Best Machine today and spoke with Chuck about it...

They have a reputable dyno and knowledge which would be a VALUABLE tool for you at this point. IMO you have been given good advice by some of the best but, as has been said 'it's your project'.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2705842
10/11/19 10:13 AM
10/11/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,620
KATY TEXAS
csk Offline
top fuel
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KATY TEXAS
Double, triple, quadruple check that you are getting WOT !!!


LINK TO MY STORY http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...s-to-build-brilliant-1968-dodge-charger/

512ci 9.7, Stealth heads, 3.54gear 4050lb,11.11 full street car trim.
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: csk] #2705844
10/11/19 10:14 AM
10/11/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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I check that every time I remove and replace the carb, but thanks. Always a good point

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: HardcoreB] #2705845
10/11/19 10:15 AM
10/11/19 10:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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Absolutely, keep it coming.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2705869
10/11/19 10:58 AM
10/11/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,256
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
If Stock Eliminator had a class where the engine was limited to 511 inches, pump gas and Victor MW heads the cars would be in the 8's. So I don't think there is anything wrong with your basic combination, you just need to sort out the details.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: AndyF] #2705901
10/11/19 12:20 PM
10/11/19 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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That's seems to be what i'm getting from most here. I think the most economical way would be to go in baby steps here and get a few springs checked, then back to the track for some driving techniques like short shifting for one. Try some timing loops and play with jetting. This combo should work. Although I thought I played with the timing and jetting enough, but maybe not from what i'm hearing now.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2706024
10/11/19 06:46 PM
10/11/19 06:46 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,812
Taxes R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Posts: 10,812
Taxes R-US, NY
Originally Posted by mopar dave
That's seems to be what i'm getting from most here. I think the most economical way would be to go in baby steps here and get a few springs checked, then back to the track for some driving techniques like short shifting for one. Try some timing loops and play with jetting. This combo should work. Although I thought I played with the timing and jetting enough, but maybe not from what i'm hearing now.


Dave,
It takes time. I have been developing my combo since 2012....Lets talk about yours and see where you think its missing....Right off the bat, your thinking its the heads....Lots of things to check there....Valve springs.....Most over looked aspect of the heads. Pull a couple, check them.....Bent valve causes all kinds of issues....What have you checked and What does it drive like?


'71 Duster Pump Gas 512LD 2013 Mod Gas Winner GRS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNMPXgRryws (6.08 at 112mph) (9.60 at +137mph)(+775hp)

'70 Cuda, Plan C....605 Hemi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph)(823hp and still tuning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: Dragula] #2706048
10/11/19 08:28 PM
10/11/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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flint michigan
It runs and drives great. It doesn't skip a beat and going down the track you expect a low 10 slip, but that's not what ya get. Its a great engine, just don't run to my expectations. I tried 34* an 36* at the track. Didn't make much difference from what I remember. tried replacing .028" high speed bleeds with .030" it went too lean and not liking that either. Tried removing air cleaner and it didn't like that either. Tried running without the 1" 4 hole tapered spacer and it didn't like that either. Tried foot braking at 2000rpm and 2500rpm, it liked 2500 better. Tried shifting at 6600 then tried 6800 and not much difference if any. I need to try shifting at 6000 just to see results. I think that would tell a lot right there. I need to try leaning the front of the carb down a bit as it has .067 pvcr with a 82 jet and an 88 in rear. It has BLP jets in it so that is the conversion. Seems like wide open it might have too much fuel in the front. I also would like to try 37 and 38* of timing at the track. Those things there once done should give me some data to chew on. Maybe it would be best to try 88 square jetting instead of running that power valve. A lot of things yet to try.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2706067
10/11/19 09:56 PM
10/11/19 09:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 871
WA 98043
thecarfarmer Offline
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WA 98043
If going from 34° to 36° didn't gain anything, I would be surprised if adding more total advance got you anywhere. Also, has true TDC been verified against the marks on the balancer; does the ignition system have any curve, or is it locked out?

How does the plugs look, from cylinder to cylinder?

Also, since the cam is fairly generous, compared to the CR, what fuel is being run in the car? Sometimes, some combos actually run a little better with a lower octane rated fuel. Not saying it's the case here, just something to consider.

If you have plenty of valve 2 piston clearance, how about advancing the cam some? Getting that intake valve closed earlier might help build a little more pressure, especially at lower speeds. If the combo likes that, and a little extra valve lash... Fairly cheap to try, just a couple of gaskets.

Also, tried launching @ 3000? If it liked 2500 > 2000...

I realize the OP may have tried any or all of these things, just trying to throw some cheap and easy things to try and check out there.


Seduce the attractive, and charm the rest. ****** 489 C.I.D., roller cam, aftermarket heads, tunnel ram, stock '54 Dodge rear axle assembly: which of these doesn't belong?
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: thecarfarmer] #2706145
10/12/19 09:43 AM
10/12/19 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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flint michigan
All very good points. First time out the air temp was 72* and I had timing on 36*. I ran the first 3 passes on 36* of timing and someone had oiled down the track,so i took the time to set the timing at 34* just to try. By the time they cleaned that up and I made my way back up there thru the long line the air temp had dropped quite a bit. I would say 65*air temp by then. Car went faster, so I left the timing at 34* for every pass after that. Every pass from then on was faster. The air temp continued to drop right til my last pass which ran a 10.401@129.75 and air temp 58* with low humidity, I believe 45%. So that needs to be retested.
I run a short curve. I should just lock it out. Yes, the timing tab has been set to TDC, but i'm thinking I may install a factory cover with the timing tab cast in and as you suggest bumping the cam timing ahead while i'm at it as my cranking compression is a bit low at 175/180. How many degrees? 2?
Ran 93 pump gas in it with about 3 gallons of 110 as a mix.
Its hard to foot brake to 3000 as the vert is too tight in my opinion, it starts to push the tires thru the beam.
Thanks

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2706226
10/12/19 02:19 PM
10/12/19 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 33,645
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
You could tighten up the lash from.004 to .008 to make the cam bigger, more lift and duration sooner also work scope
Lots of easy things to test with, good luck up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: Cab_Burge] #2706235
10/12/19 03:28 PM
10/12/19 03:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,408
NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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Posts: 1,408
NW Indiana
At the above shift points what did it go through the traps at. If you are shifting at 66-6800 I'd want it 7000-7200 going through.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: fbs63] #2706240
10/12/19 04:14 PM
10/12/19 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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I'm not sure where it wants to be shifted. I just went for what might be my last blast in it for this year. Sure is a fun car to drive on the street, I will say that. no dips or sags or stumbles, It runs very good on the street. If ya didn't know better, you would think it had a 4150 on it. Very good street manners in my opinion. I was just out running it up to 7000 thru the gears, seems like it runs out 66 or 6700. Really hard to tell, but it is done at 69 to 7000. It might be worth it just to get on a chassis dyno and find peak torque and best timing. I currently have the timing at 37* total and I leaned to carb down a bit, but its still at 11.7AFR WO with the fuel I just put in it. Needed to get rid of what was left of the race fuel for the season. With straight pump gas its usually around 12.5 WO throttle. My thought right now is that the timing is very close at 36-37*, just by looking at the plug, watching vacuum and listening to it, driving it and a bit of track time. The carb could use a little time I think on the pvcr's as the specs show more fuel in the front than rear. .067pvcr 82 jet front and 88 rear. I need to get my carb book out to see what is equivalent in pvcr to 6 jet sizes.
It went thru traps at 6900 RPM

Last edited by mopar dave; 10/12/19 04:18 PM.
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: Cab_Burge] #2706242
10/12/19 04:17 PM
10/12/19 04:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,356
flint michigan
mopar dave Online content OP
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After talking to Dwayne and a few others, I do need to spend some more time on tuning. see what happens.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2706501
10/13/19 08:04 PM
10/13/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,143
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Online sick
I almost got away with it!
BradH  Online Sick
I almost got away with it!
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,143
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted by mopar dave
After talking to Dwayne and a few others, I do need to spend some more time on tuning. see what happens.

popcorn


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2706543
10/13/19 09:30 PM
10/13/19 09:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,256
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
If it was my car I'd pull the engine and get it on the dyno over the winter. I'd also be prepared to change the cam since my guess is that yours is too big for your combo. But I understand that not everyone has the same resources I do so what works for me might not work for someone else.

Re: TF270 accessories [Re: mopar dave] #2706562
10/13/19 10:36 PM
10/13/19 10:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
Canada
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MestocX Offline
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Canada
Not sure if this helps but will tell my story first combination
B block 400 499'
4.150 stroke
13.1 compression
Cam motion 283 Duration 704. 660 -2 retarded roller
Isky redzones
2 inch fendwell
Hughes Max Wedge Victors 333cc first editionnot the monster max
indy 4150 intake cast with 2 inch spacer with 1050 4150QF
40 degrees timing on engine dyno
724 at 6800 650 at 5200

Car 67 Barracuda
14.32 tire 456 dana
Glide with 1.96
6000vert
Weight 2762 w/ driver
Changed from 4150 to 1100cfm 3 circuit Dommy (pro systems)
35 degrees timing
License pass
9.68 at 136.56 mph
At 3000ft
Needless to say was not impressed with the performance but over the years tweaked the motor

*went from 35 degrees to 40 degrees.
New best 9.61 @138 mph
* went from mineral oil to synthetic
New best 9.55 at 139mph


Next race season
Switched to indy 4500 intake w/ plenum modded from ebay (lol)
Hvh super sucker cloverleaf 2 inch
*timing at 35 degrees (mistake lol)
New best 9.50 at 142.3 mph

Same year found a used holley ultra dom 2 circuit 1150 from holley
Carb to carb swap
New best
9.41 at 143.32 mph

1.96 glide gear broke (dang)

New 1.80 gear set

New slow e.t 9.51 at 142.3
Timing from 35 degrees to 42 degrees
New returning best: 9.43 at 142.6

Following race season

Added 3.5 inch collector extensions
Built airpan seal to hood
Hvh cloverleaf to a regular 2inch super sucker
Slight porting of intake runners +port match
New best 9.33 at 143 mph

Next year

Went to a BTE 1.98 gearset
New et best 9.23 at 144mph

ets recorded around 3000ft for comparison reasons

Sometimes you just have to tune what you got and work the car around the combo.
1 freshening same exact long block.

With tuning guessing engine makes 750-770 hp 650t shift at 7200 first/drive

Having a camera man + go pro + afr gauge helps with tuning. Having more eyes than your own is your greatest ally.

Lady driven. It's my mother. Me and the ol'man are the pit bitches.

(Knowledge from Moparts members greatly assisted with the progression of the car.)

Thank you. Ryan




Last edited by MestocX; 10/14/19 01:45 AM.
Re: TF270 accessories [Re: MestocX] #2706582
10/14/19 12:54 AM
10/14/19 12:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 33,645
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 33,645
Bend,OR USA
Why is that cam retarded 4 degrees? Is it installed at 4 degrees further away from TDC on the intake lobe center than the exhaust lobe is?
What lobe separation angle is this cam ground on and where is the intake lobe center installed now ?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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