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Drill for clearance, or replace? #2703906
10/04/19 06:13 PM
10/04/19 06:13 PM
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Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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So I finally pick up my 360 at the shop, driving back home with that happy as "you know what" look on my face...LOL!

Get the stuff into the garage, pull back the bag, start looking things over, things look nice until I spot the following issue with the camshaft bearings (see attachments).

Looks like most of them were pressed in a bit too far, but #2 in particular was clocked incorrectly and I actually have about 1/2 of the passage completely blocked off. To top it off this is the oil feed into the head, grrrhh....

So I'm thinking:
1) bring the darn thing back to the shop? Hassle, b/c I'm in Windsor, ON, Canada and the shop is in Taylor, MI...so standard border crossing hassle applies

2) attempt to clearance by drilling through...seems easy, but I dread the idea of the bit breaking in the block, and besides, no idea really how "clean" that sort of a clearencing will turn out anyways

OK, so take a peek...should these be completely pressed out and new bearings installed?

Thanks!

cam_bearing_oil_feedhole_blocked_1.jpgcam_bearing_oil_feedhole_blocked_2.jpg
Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2703912
10/04/19 06:26 PM
10/04/19 06:26 PM
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Sniper Offline
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Sometimes, you have to do things yourself

Mopar cam bearing tool

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2703914
10/04/19 06:34 PM
10/04/19 06:34 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Do your heads need the oil feeding to the rocker shafts or no up?
If not don't worry about that hole, I wouldn't twocents
If the heads need the oiling to the rocker shafts get it fix now up
It has been a while since I've install L.A. cam bearing, I'm thinking the #2 and #4 cam bearings should have full oil grooves in them maybe not confused
Thinking about that some more the heads with rocker arm shafts get oiled through the hole in the camshaft, don't they blush realcrazy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/04/19 06:35 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2703916
10/04/19 06:42 PM
10/04/19 06:42 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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you might want to look at a service manual or oiling schematic. some of those cam bearings were purposely made for the feed hole to be partially blocked. if the cam bearing journals are grooved i'd leave it alone.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: lewtot184] #2703922
10/04/19 07:02 PM
10/04/19 07:02 PM
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No they are NOT designed to be partially blocked. If flow restriction were needed they would make the hole smaller because you cannot guarantee proper installation, see OP's new cam bearing for proof.

OEM type LA cam bearings and/or cam journals were never grooved, no need for it.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Sniper] #2703924
10/04/19 07:04 PM
10/04/19 07:04 PM
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South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkrt Offline
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I would bring it back. Let him fix it so you don't screw it up.


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Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: 70sixpkrt] #2704002
10/05/19 12:00 AM
10/05/19 12:00 AM
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Maryland
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MoparMike1974 Offline
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I have tore down many engines that had misaligned cam bearing holes from the factory. Its not a huge deal for a relatively stock engine. Personally when I install them I get them as lined up as possible. Since the engine is not together I would go ahead and correct it.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: MoparMike1974] #2704019
10/05/19 06:32 AM
10/05/19 06:32 AM
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Abilene, Texas
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fastmark Offline
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Originally Posted by MoparMike1974
I have tore down many engines that had misaligned cam bearing holes from the factory. Its not a huge deal for a relatively stock engine. Personally when I install them I get them as lined up as possible. Since the engine is not together I would go ahead and correct it.


It’s hard to get the perfectly aligned in the first place. I have a long 1/4” drill bit that I use to drill the bearing after the install. Just catch all the shavings and wash the block again. It’s supposed to be aligned.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: fastmark] #2704088
10/05/19 11:43 AM
10/05/19 11:43 AM
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Alberta
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440_Offroader Offline
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Originally Posted by fastmark


It’s hard to get the perfectly aligned in the first place. I have a long 1/4” drill bit that I use to drill the bearing after the install. Just catch all the shavings and wash the block again. It’s supposed to be aligned.


I have drilled them as well. Carefully knock down any high spots/ burrs with a razor blade. As mentioned, they are hard to line up. If you replace it, I would install a new bearing. I don't like using a previously installed bearing because of the scrubbing it has when it was installed in the first place. That's just me though, my opinion.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: 440_Offroader] #2704094
10/05/19 11:56 AM
10/05/19 11:56 AM
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Sniper Offline
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No, it is not difficult to install them.

A few minutes with a sharpie and a straightedge to mark the block where the holes are so you can align the bearing shell will allow you to install them properly.

Not rocket science.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2704099
10/05/19 12:12 PM
10/05/19 12:12 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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I would re-install them correctly. I have a cam bearing tool, so it's not a big deal.
Not sure how far away the original shop is, but it might cost more to travel there than pay a local shop to fix it?

Drilling is an option, but need to be careful not to raise a burr, or distort the bearing when breaking through the bearing.

On my 360 RV engine with Crane gold aluminum rocker arms, I wanted more rocker oiling, so the #2 an #4 cam journals were grooved (a small groove.)

If using head studs, enlarge the tall cylinder head hole where the oil comes up for a bit more clearance around the head stud.


Last edited by 451Mopar; 10/05/19 12:24 PM.
Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: 451Mopar] #2704103
10/05/19 12:59 PM
10/05/19 12:59 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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if you have an 1/8" dia passage left after the misalignment you are fine (& 1/16 is fine on the 1,3,5 non oilers). EDIT if you can stick a 1/16 drill bit in the holes you are set, no opinion on the bearings too far lateral (I'd mockup the cam) but I got a feeling you are OK. MORE EDIT meant to say 1/8" (#2 & #4)

Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/05/19 04:07 PM.

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Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2704157
10/05/19 07:41 PM
10/05/19 07:41 PM
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PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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From looking at that picture I can’t honestly say what I would do as I would want to see and check it out better. I will tell you that I did tap the rocker stands on my Edelbrock heads and install brass set screws that I drilled to .062 so I could limit the oil to my Harlan Sharp rockers. A 1/16 hole flows a lot of oil in a pressurized system.


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Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2704252
10/06/19 09:34 AM
10/06/19 09:34 AM
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Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Thanks for the feedback and suggestions everyone.

That build is a stroker W2 motor, using Harland Sharp rocker arms, and indeed I had actually threaded the oil feed hole in the head itself so that I can install a restrictor plug in case I need too, all without having the pull the head and deal with this type of a thing at the block deck to head interface level. The HS folks did actually say that an oil restrictor may be needed given the design of their rocker arms.

However, I do not want to assume that this is the only combo I might run. Heck, if I want to try the MP W2 rockers (which are 1.5 ratio) over the HS (which are 1.6) I want to be able to make sure that I have enough oil feed to the top end.

The cam is a hydraulic roller without the grooved journal, so no other way to assure a steady feed of oil other than the periodic oil feedthrough alignment as the cam rotates.

I am taking the block back to the shop, as some of you pointed out this type of an issue should not arise. It is easy enough to mark with a felt pen and just align the darn thing.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2704270
10/06/19 10:08 AM
10/06/19 10:08 AM
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
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In a nutshell.
It should be aligned. Some bearing have 2 holes. If that is one of those, then if the top hole isn't aligned, the bottom hole probably isn't too. cutting off oil to the cam and head. Put it in wrong and it could be totally covered. Oil is the life blood to your engine.
Do not reuse the bearing.There is a tension/friction created when the bearing is pressed in to keep it from spinning. Press it out and back in and you reduce the tension between the block and bearing making it more likely to spin.

I would not take it back. If they did it wrong the first time they didn't take the time to do it right. They will probably remove it and reuse it. If it spins they will claim you did something wrong when you broke it in, or built it.

This is exactly why I bought my own tool.

Drilling is an option but be sure all the holes are aligned and of course the holes are deburred and block free of debris.

Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Diplomat360] #2705733
10/10/19 10:41 PM
10/10/19 10:41 PM
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Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum Offline
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Originally Posted by Diplomat360
The HS folks did actually say that an oil restrictor may be needed given the design of their rocker arms.


A factory rocker system needs the volume and the rocker on the shaft becomes the restriction to regulate the proper amount of oil.

A full radius bearing is just a giant leak around a rocker shaft. I can see pressurized oil in a rocker shaft sending too much oil to the rocker bearings.

I'd say leave it and it will still be too much oil.


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Re: Drill for clearance, or replace? [Re: Magnum] #2706157
10/12/19 11:16 AM
10/12/19 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Magnum
Originally Posted by Diplomat360
The HS folks did actually say that an oil restrictor may be needed given the design of their rocker arms.


A factory rocker system needs the volume and the rocker on the shaft becomes the restriction to regulate the proper amount of oil.

A full radius bearing is just a giant leak around a rocker shaft. I can see pressurized oil in a rocker shaft sending too much oil to the rocker bearings.

I'd say leave it and it will still be too much oil.


You are probably right but remember Mopars do not get a constant flow of oil to the rockers. The oil passes through holes in the camshaft that only line up once per cam revolution per side or once every other engine revolution. That small spurt can't be much to begin with.

Again you are probably right because of the rocker system he is running but traditional systems are pretty limited in the oil flow category.







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